Marketing Buzzword - Conversational Marketing - Madalyn Sklar

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Conversational Marketing – Do Conversations Really Convert? How Do You Measure The ROI? Why Are Twitter Chats Becoming More Popular?

On this week’s #MarketingBuzzword Podcast, Ben M Roberts speaks to Madalyn Sklar about ‘Conversational Marketing’. As always the aim of the podcast is to debunk, demystify and bring back some meaning to the marketing buzzword.

Madalyn Sklar is a serial entrepreneur, community builder and leading Twitter marketing expert. With 22 years digital marketing experience and 13 years social media marketing under her belt, it’s no surprise she’s ranked the #1 Social Media Power Influencer in Houston. Each week Madalyn hosts the #TwitterSmarter Twitter chat that brings together hundreds of people in an active one hour discussion revolving around Twitter marketing. Since launching two years ago, it has reached 4.64 billion impressions. She also hosts the weekly #SocialROI chatthat’s presented by ManageFlitter. Madalyn interviews leading social media and marketing experts for her TwitterSmarter podcast and co-hosts the weekly Communities That Convert podcast with Kami Huyse. Huffington Post has named Madalyn one of 50 Women Entrepreneurs to follow.

Twitter Chat List

Twitter Chat Course

You can find a full transcript of the conversation between Ben and Madalyn below, but before that I want to let you know that The Marketing Buzzword Podcast is now powered by Talkative. Talkative is a company that brings live chat, voice calls, video calls and co-browsing together, in one package. This allows you and your business to truly engage with your customers, offer quick and effective resolutions to questions and improve the customer experience. You can find out more at

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Enough small talk . . . let’s talk “Conversational Marketing”

Conversational Marketing Interview between Ben M Roberts and Madalyn Sklar


Ben: Hi Madalyn and welcome to the podcast.

Madalyn: Thank you Ben. Great to be here.

Ben: I’m so excited to have you on. And finally we’ve got pause a load of mic trouble and we’re now going.

Madalyn: I’m so thrilled. I am ready for your questions. Bring them on.

Ben: Well along the list, Im gonna hit you with a big sucker punched straight thing you can handle. You think you can take this blow. But I want to test you anyway

Madalyn: Okay

Ben: So Madalyn you’re the queen of conversations but do conversations actually really convert? Do they have a really good ROI? Do people actually mostly waste their time with trying to have so many conversations online?

Madalyn: Well I think it’s a great question. I think conversations do convert because when we’re on social media, if we’re using it in a way to have a conversation and mind you a lot of people don’t they just get on there and push out this one way street of information but they don’t take the time to listen and converse and just develop relationships with people by talking. I like to spend time having conversations getting to know people because you know at the end of the day people are going to buy from you if they know like and trust you and the way that happens is through conversation. So I think it’s a really important part of social media and I think it’s something that everyone needs to really look at what are their current strategies. How are they utilizing social and making sure that conversing with people is a big part of what you’re doing.

Ben: Yeah, I agree I think it’s one of the things that social media is well by definition social. But it seems it still seems almost ludicrous. People still get it so so wrong because I think I can’t remember totally where social media’s been around that people have ever said just push stuff out, just push stuff out and don’t have conversation so why are people still getting it so wrong?

Madalyn: Ben I tell you I think they’re getting it wrong because they just haven’t been properly trained. Everybody thinks, oh I don’t need to learn social media you just get on there and do what everyone else is doing. And I think that’s the problem. So instead everyone should like to take a quick little breather look at what you’re doing and work up some new ideas and you don’t have to do what everyone else is doing. You can stand out and do things that work on you. Focus on what can you do to build your business. Let’s think back to before the internet, how did you-for those that are a little bit older. How were you marketing your business before the internet before social media and for those that are younger and all you know is social and all you know is the internet. Think back to when you first were on the Internet. You know, how did you talk to people like what what did you like about the Internet. I mean most of us like it because of conversations we have, because of the people we meet on there. I mean that’s my favorite part of getting onto social media everyday is that I’m on there talking to cool people like yourself Ben. I’ll get on Twitter and just meet amazing people. And so sometimes we go back to the roots of our business. Why are we in business. What are we trying to do what are we trying to accomplish. If we didn’t have the internet what would we be doing. We would be going to a local network events and what will we be doing there we would be having conversations. So we kind of need to look at it from that perspective was take away the Internet. How would I do business. How would I get business. And I think if we look at fundamentals then we can go back and apply it to how we’re using our social media today.

Ben: It’s almost like a case of stripping it back and when we strip it back to what the core of it actually is, it’s just that conversational business where we said we used to go to networking meetings, used to go to the corner shop and you’d have a conversation with someone there and that was how business was done. And now people seem to go oh as a new is what it is a new medium, a new shiny medium that keeps having new shiny shiny things attached all the time and people have to do and try the latest shiny thing and then they forget about the cool stuff. It’s almost like doing all the additional bits then neglecting the core and they wonder why they’re not necessarily always progressing with social and it seems so logical but it’s one thing people seem to make a prominent an issue that people make over and over again.

Madalyn: I totally agree. So, you know, I think that was really best to do is go empower yourself to learn how to best use these social media platforms so that you’re getting it right. You know people get on Twitter and they think oh all I gotta do is just post the articles from our blog and share some information about our services. It goes so far beyond that. Go to Twitter chats, go connect with people and just learn how these different strategies work and how can you apply it to your business. Go look at how, I mean here’s a great idea. Go look at like 5 people in your industry they’re crushing it and go to their social media go look and see how are they using Twitter. How are they using Instagram. Look at what they’re doing. Not to go and copy what they’re doing exactly but to get ideas of and you’ll see well this is working for them. How can I take that knowledge of what they’re doing and apply it to the way I’m doing my business. And you might find that that really helps. Or just go do some online training there’s so much online training now that’s available online classes and things like that that you can learn your basics of how to use LinkedIn to get your business how to use Twitter for business how to use Facebook advertising you know people do Facebook advertising wrong and so just go take a class go do an online class and learn the basics of how to do a Facebook ad and you will do so much better than everyone else.

Ben: Yeah and that’s the thing is people just I can agree more. Something is it’s people say I’ll do it in everyday life so I don’t need to. I don’t need to train on it but everyone needs training on how to do things better. Anyone can go on social media, that’s not a barrier to entry. The barrier come in actually doing it well. It’s like say anything at home or anything it’s like try an example anyone can walk. But not everyone can actually walk in a really efficient way and walk long distances can do. Maybe that’s a weird example but it’s anyone can do it. But it’s actually the way that does it in terms of speed walking, distance walking, hill-walking, until no one’s still talking about walking but you get what you can do.

Madalyn: I totally understand you’re using a good example to explain it. So I totally get it.

Ben: I’m glad someone gets it. I do worries sometimes. But I also think one of the things that I want us to sort of touch on from what you said that is almost actually when I put the question to start do conversations really have a good ROI, and I think one of the problems that people have is that they don’t get buy in from the top down of an organization. Where they say you need to go on social media and be posting stuff you can be sharing all that stuff and they don’t know the top and from top down they don’t put the emphasis on conversations. Yet the funny thing is they will then put the effort say they will still maintain an emphasis if you’re going to networking events and other events to go meet people so why is there a perception that conversations through social media don’t necessarily converse as well as conversations so networking events or I might maybe making (inaudible) this up.

Madalyn: You know isn’t it definitely makes for an interesting conversation. Now I believe that you can go online and you can use social media to your benefit to get great contacts, great people that will buy from you. Without having to go to a local event. I think us all in your strategy you know, what are you doing to drum up business? You know, if your boss says Hey go get on Twitter and go get new clients. It’s not as easy as just getting on Twitter and getting new clients. You know you got to have a strategy. And I think you have to look at the long game you have to look at. OK. How about every day I make the effort to go reach out to 10 people I don’t know and just have a conversation with them. I mean this is something I’m always telling people to go do. You know we want to get out of our comfort zone because it’s very easy to just get on Twitter and just be superficial. Right? What you want to do is like get to know people go you know, go an easy way to do this is go look at your ten most recent followers. These are people that are following you. So it’s not like a cold call. They already they already looked at your profile and they decided to tap on the button to follow you. So why not go to those people and send a tweet said Hey thank you for following me. I noticed in your bio that you like baseball I like baseball too. And now you’re starting a conversation and through that you can at some point lead to a sale because you’re starting the process of getting to know them and getting them to like you and trust you said that at some point they’ll buy from you and it can be really simple like that just go and and just start conversing with people that follow you.

Ben: It’s funny though isn’t it that almost less of a value sometimes best is shown on those when actually you can have ten conversations over something like Twitter or linked in whatever it is at the same time almost all within is a (inaudible) relatively short based thought and built up relations of ten different people whereas actually the emphasis was put on these networking events where you potentially could have be having just one on one conversations. And actually when you go to networking events you have no idea what you know you terms these events and you don’t actually know who’s going to turn up what they get in and what they’re going to do or anything. Whereas actually on social media you have an insight into what people’s lives like because they put these things in their boy as you can see what they’ve been sharing you can see what what other conversations they’ve had. And actually you know the power of conversation should be almost amplified and valued even more over social.

Madalyn: I totally agree. I mean you’re really just hit all the points perfectly. I mean you know, you have right in front of you. The Twitter bio. So you can see who they are what they do. There should be a link there. So that will take you to their website or their LinkedIn or something where you can go gather information before you even talk to them when you go to a networking event in person. You literally have no information about anybody, if you don’t know them then you really don’t know them. You don’t have that opportunity. Well let me real quickly look at their bio on Twitter and and learn something about them to see what do I have in common with them, so I can start a conversation. I’ll give an example here so I’m a little bit of an introvert. Surprisingly people are always surprised to find that out. So if I was to go to a networking event in person I’m pretty shy at events like that. So it’s a little bit harder for me to go up to people I don’t know and just start talking to them but when I’m on social media and information about the persons in front of me it’s a lot easier to say you know, Hey Ben I love your Twitter profile, I love all these tweets you’re sending out. I like you know X Y and Z too, you know because something I saw in your bio or maybe something that relates to an article that you share. So I’m finding that common interests and starting a conversation is so much easier when you’re doing it on a screen vs. in person.

Ben: Yeah you have so much more touch points in your ear. And again it comes back to. Actually I think it’s important to sort of not almost move away from a point that you made earlier about actually into it into a strategy as well because you can actually strategically have conversations with people which is so much more powerful for your business than than just going to a networking event where you don’t know who turns up. I think it has a great point that you made earlier that actually it’s just not always part of the strategy when it really should be.

Madalyn: Exactly. Exactly yeah. I mean this is a good time to really step back look at your current strategies and look out what can you do to make these more effective and hopefully today through this conversation the listeners are getting some new ideas of what they can be doing that will make a difference in their marketing moving forward.

Ben: And they say is that what I really want people to get out the podcast as it is trying to. I want people to be honest to break down this term conversation marketing that people throw a thought to throw around a little bit more. It’s a term that actually we’ve been told about conversations in marketing for a while but people started talking about conversational commerce, conversational marketing. And it’s interesting to see how this is developing and is something that’s why I thought you were the perfect person to come and tackle it. Now, one thing I know that you’re a huge huge fan of and a massive advocate of is Twitter chats and this is something that seems become a really really big deal really quickly so Madalyn, for the guys and girls listening who either haven’t been involved in a Twitter chat or don’t know what it is. Why are they a thing. And what’s so good about them?

Madalyn: Oh gosh I can talk all day about Twitter chats. I LOVE THEM SO MUCH. I think this is hands down the best way to utilize the connections available to you on Twitter through a Twitter chat. Let me first explain what this says if there are people listening that don’t even know what a Twitter chat is. The best way I describe it is having a conversation that revolves around a hashtag is as simple as that. So I’ll give you an example. Every week I host a Twitter chat called Twitter smarter. And Twitter smarter is basically what it sounds like it’s a place where you can go and get smarter, learning more about Twitter. We share Twitter tips and advice and ways to market best using Twitter. So I do this chat every Thursday afternoon at 1:00 Eastern. I believe that is 6:00 out in your parts. And what makes Twitter chat so great, is that you can connect with like minded people. So I go on a Twitter chat, and let’s say that you know a lot of Twitter chats I go on have to do with social media which is my business. So I’ll go on to like say buffer or chat. So the third party tool called buffer that’s very popular.They do a chat every week called buffer chat and then HootSuite does a chat called Hootchat and so I’ll find Twitter chats like is where I feel like this is my community, these are my people because we have similar interests were all going on these chats to learn more about using social media in our business. So being around like minded people I think is one of the best things about Twitter chat and also the topic for discussion is usually something that really resonates with you and that you’re really interested in and so that makes some really exciting. So I recommend that people go check out Twitter chats. Find some that interests you and go to two or three a week ideally. Now I know a little bit of a time commitment Twitter chats are typically an hour. Most of them are weekly sometimes you’ll find one of this monthly. But if you start spending time going to Twitter chats you start becoming a regular where everybody gets to know you so that kind of starts off the know like and trust. And it’s a great way to connect with people every single week so I think it’s just I just can’t say enough great things about Twitter chats I just think it is the best way to connect. I hope you are you know so many people say to me Ben Oh I get on Twitter and nobody listens to me. OK, if you want people to listen to you go participate in a Twitter chat and I don’t mean just typing in the hashtag and just watch like you got to participate you need jump into the conversation you’re going to make amazing new connections you can have all these great contacts and there are going to be people there that can help you with your business you’re going to start developing great relationships. I’ve connected with so many amazing people Ben which has led to things right? I mean this has led to opportunities I’ve had opportunities to speak at conferences because I participate on Twitter chats. I’ve had lots of opportunities to be on podcasts like this, from people meeting me on Twitter chats. It’s just been endless. All the opportunities come from it. So I think it is definitely worth spending time go find some that resonate with you and try it out and then send me a tweet let me know. I would love to hear from you all. You know if you try this out go to @MadalynSklar on Twitter send me a tweet and send tell me what Twitter chat you went to and how it went for you.


Ben: Yeah I think that’s, there’s so many points I want to pick out. I’m an old school. I do physical handwritten notes as I go through this because I’m yeah I’m so edgy now and I don’t need to..

Madalyn: I love it

Ben: But when the things we want to pick up on is again it comes back to that thing is that you said that people complain they go on Twitter and no one listens to them. It’s amazing because when you just when you’re in a room and you don’t just shout things and people look at you go shouting and then go back to having a conversation people because conversations matter more than shouting and actually it’s like if you go and actually participate in conversations you get so much more out so much more out of it and it’s just needs to get the emphasis across it. It’s the conversations that probably matter, yes you need to do a little bit of shouting because you need to get a balance like and understandable that (inaudible) just not neglecting conversations and not thinking it’s a it’s a second or third thought in probably be the first thought and it’s just that movement then you want to pick up when you get about twitter chats is two things firstly where can people find out what the best Twitter chats off the industry and then I’ve got another question for you about people that potentially want to make their own. If you could tackle that first question for me I think that would be a great start.

Madalyn: Sure, Yeah I get asked this all the time now. Twitter chats have been around for almost ten years now they’ve been out there a long time. Unfortunately there’s not one master list that has every Twitter chat on it. I wish there was.

Ben: That’s so useful.

Madalyn: Oh that would be nice. You could do a google search and you’ll find some directories listings. I mean there’s a few of them out there there’s one from a site called and a few others. The problem is they’re not always updated. So if you find a big list just know that hey if you see something that looks interesting go in research then make sure is still out there just go type in the hashtag and you’re quickly know if it’s current or not. Now what I did Ben, I took upon myself a few years ago to start my own list and I call it the very best Twitter chats for social media and marketing. So if you’re interested in social media chat you’re interested in chats that relate to marketing, I think I have a really great list that I put together and I’m always adding to it because people let me know about new chats and I’ll add it on here I want it just to be a good little one stop place to to get it. So the web address for that is through my Website, and that’ll take you there. So are you able to link that in the show?

Ben: Oh hundred percent

Madalyn: Perfect! So that would be in the show notes you can check that out. I pride myself on this list I’ve worked really hard on it and I’ve got them listed by day of the week so it starts with Monday and here are the chats on Monday and then I got Tuesday and so on and so on. So this is a good start and this could be a good way to find something you know for you the listener find something that looks appealing and just go check it out. And if you don’t like it go try another one because listen all chats are different. You know it all depends on who’s the leader and how they choose to lead the chat. My chats, I welcome everybody is like hey if you want to be part of the conversation you are more than welcome to participate. I also hosted another chat called Social ROI and that’s every Tuesday afternoon at 5 o’clock Eastern so I know over in the UK that’s a little late but those are my two chats Twitter smarter that I mentioned earlier and then social ROI.  But on this list there’s tons and tons of chats and there are some that are earlier in the day so that would work better for you guys. For listeners over there in the UK they actually do have several in here like I have one called S M London it is by Social Media London. They have one every Tuesday morning.

Ben: Last thing is actually there are twitter chats absolutely everywhere all over the world. I cant wait to share that list to everyone because it’s when the (inaudible) it they’re not they’re not regional, they can be done at any time of day. The amazing thing about social media is it actually you know what. Sometimes in a working day I’m too busy but actually if it comes to like 8:00 9:00 at night I’m having a chill and I’ve just got my phone my phone in my hands. Why not participate in these things and sometimes at best and actually there’s no, there’s no particularly right way or wrong way around it. It’s just an incredible tool to access different people.

Madalyn:  Absolutely. And every chat’s different. I mean you could go two to one chat and meet an amazing group of people and then go to another chat later and there’ll be some crossover you’ll reckon, Oh yeah I saw this person earlier but you’ll meet a whole new group of people and also what’s great about Twitter chats this is a great tip for everybody, take the time to get to know the host. The host is the one running the whole thing and not get to know them in the sense of oh you know I want to be a guest on this chats I’m gonna go you know suck up to the host, no. What I want you to do is just get to know the host because they’re the ones running this. They’re the ones where hey maybe you have an idea of a great guest that you could recommend or maybe you want to offer up a topic idea or or anything like get to know the host because they’re the ones in charge and so it never hurt to to spend time tweeting with them and you know, let them know hey I love your chat. I’m so glad that I’m here now part of it. You know so just a quick little tip that might be helpful to just get to know the host a little bit better.

Ben: Yeah I think that’s when the (inaudible) expand on it and again the power of conversation is I know for example with this podcast and events and the things I do. I’ll get people who message me out of nowhere saying, oh I’m a big fan of your podcast. Can I come on as guest? I’ve never heard of them before, I’d ever seen them before, they never interact with me before whereas actually the people who haven’t had a conversation with, I actually understand it, okay they all an expert in their field. All this listening to be great talk about and then we can we are much more likely to get these people on because I actually had a conversation with you. I like you, I know you, I trust you a bit, I’ve seen you’re an authority so (inaudible) or a big fan, I don’t know it’s mad to believe but you could be anyone.

Madalyn: Exactly you’re bringing up such a great point Ben because you know I have a podcast as well two podcasts actually so between my two Twitter chats are my two podcast I get hit up all the time from people I don’t know that you see either for themselves or for someone else that they represent. They can be on my podcast, it can be on my chat. And what’s interesting is I would say at least 50 percent of the time, this person pitching is not even a right fit. I have had people pitch about something that has nothing to do with social media but they’re pitching my Twitter chat, that’s strictly Twitter. And I was like, okay.. delete! But what works better is like what you are saying Ben, go get to know these people first go hang out with them on Twitter or other social media platforms. I think Twitter is the easiest one because it’s open as public Facebook, people tend to use more for friends and family. So it’s not easy to get to know you know influencers and people that are higher up that that you know are influencers that you want to connect with. But if they’re tweeting, they’re within arm’s length. Like you can almost touch them. So I think using Twitter is an excellent way to get to know them. So I’m just kind of echoing what you’re saying Ben.

Ben: Yeah. No and again I think we’re really on the same page here and this is again why I want to bring you on because they’re about of value knowledge and expertise and how long I’ve been doing this. Then turning these conversations into businesses and actually making some real value out of it. It’s almost quite inspirational for many people to come on especially channels like Twitter for example where people sit looking and can quite easily get disillusioned because they just see people posting like no ones (inaudible) because it moves so fast. I’ve seen some people get sluiced with it then actually when you go meets and seizing someone like yourself from what you’re doing you can actually really understand the other side of it and I’m a huge Twitter fan. I absolutely love Twitter. An annoyingly I could spend, I wish I could spend so much more time on it because I think it’s great. (inaudible) me and stuff but it’s easy, I can easily see why people can lose faith in channels like that when they don’t make the most of it.

Madalyn: Right, yeah. So I mean I just think the best thing to do is start with one Twitter chat you can find,  go get to know people, enjoy it and then if you find that this is becoming a great way for you to connect and have conversations then find some other chat since you know just build up off of that and you may decide you want to start your own. You know there is no rule book out there that says you cannot do your own chat. I’ve actually worked with quite a few people I even have a training course that teaches you how to start your own twitter chat. I think it’s such a great way to connect with people. And you know even decide to be the leader. Like Hey I want to start my own by starting your own. People will see you as the leader. They’ll see you as the influencer. They’ll look at you as the expert in your field. If done properly so it’s definitely something to think about.

Ben: Yeah, I understand right there isn’t it. It is the authority, and it shows that dedication as long as you do it consistently over a period of time and you keep it engaging and relevant then actually it really quite easily known for it because it’s your thing. No one can take that away. No one can take that Twitter to a chat away from you it’s like your little space to own. But I do have a question, if people do want to do their own tweet chat, now one of the questions I can almost see people asking is, What if I don’t have a very big following or my business doesn’t have a very big following, now how is it easy to start a tweet chat then if you will? What happens if you start posting and no one replies? How easy to get disillusioned? or should you, what is worse than good and bad practices around starting a Twitter chat if that’s what people thought after listening this podcast, go yes I think I want to start one.

Madalyn: Oh I love this question Ben. And it is something that comes up a lot because you know people are held back by fear. There’s always that fear of the unknown. Their fear is anyone going to show up and it doesn’t matter if you have a big list or small list. Everyone will say the same thing. Is anyone going to show up? I mean I have a big list and I get concerned is anyone going to show up and I’ve worked with people that have a small list and their concern. So I always say this, number one, GO FOR IT, JUST DO IT. Because you won’t know unless you try. You don’t know if it’s going to be successful and be amazing and be career changing for you unless you try. And what’s the worst thing that will happen, you don’t really get enough people showing up. You gave it your all. Now move on to something else, so that like just know that the worst thing that could possibly happen is actually not a big deal. So it’s actually better to just try. So what I would recommend is this and this is actually what I recommend in my training program is you know, you pick a day it’s like okay I’m gonna do this Twitter chat every Tuesday at 3:00 o’clock. And you know this is it. Pick a topic and invite my friends and invite my colleagues and hopefully more people hear about it. Word of mouth and it will grow. So you have to look at the long game.

I’ve seen people start Twitter chats and after a few weeks they give up because not enough people showed up. Well you have to just know going into this that those first few chats you’re probably not going to get very many people you really just don’t know what to expect until you do it. But what I’ve learned is invite your friends, invite your colleagues and ask them to please come and support you. It’s your very first chat and you would love for them to be there. And they’ll do it. They’ll be there for you and ask them to invite their friends and they will. I mean there would I noticed in business. I mean I’ve been self-employed doing what I’ve been doing for 22 years and one thing I’ve learned in business is that you have to tell people to do stuff. People don’t always know what to do. Right. We know what we want them to do but they don’t always know what to do. I mean they’re control you just got put click this button or click here to go here. Right. You have to hold their hand basically. And so you know my strategy is for a first chat is invite your friends and colleagues as them to please come and support you, that you know you want to make sure it’s not a ghost town you need their help and please invite their friends you know Hey would you mind inviting you know five friends or colleagues as well. And this will snowball and then you do your first job and you’re gonna get enough time I don’t decide tomorrow is going to be like your first hey I’m launching a Twitter chat, it starts tomorrow. Now give yourself at least a few weeks or but not too long if you give yourself more than a few weeks then you’re not going to do it yet. Because then it’s easy to put it off. So give yourself. I would say about two weeks and say look at the calendar and go OK, two weeks from today I’m launching this Twitter chat called X Y Z and and now your work really begins. You got to go in reach out to all your friends and colleagues and say please come to this please support me I need you there for me I need your help I need your support and trust me when you ask they will do it. And then when they’re in and say OK can you invite five friends and they’ll do it. And so just get in the habit of doing those and amazing things will happen you’ll do your first chat. More people than you you figured would be there are going to show up. And then here’s the key. Make it a good quality chat. If it’s good and they like it and they got something out of it they’ll come back next week and they’ll tell their friends and be sure you know at the end tweet out saying hey we’re going to be back here next week at the same day and time invite your friends and we’ll do it all over again and they’ll keep coming back and they’ll keep inviting friends you just got to kind of guide them to this and just ask don’t ever be afraid to ask because you don’t get what you don’t ask for.

Ben: Oh, hundred percent.

Madalyn: That’s a tweetable right there. Does it all. You don’t get what you don’t ask for

Ben: I can’t agree more isn’t it and it’s like, my own tweet (inaudible) not to let you sort of steal the show Madalyn but I want to say as well. Don’t let the fear of failure hold you back as well.

Madalyn: That’s right.

Ben: You’re so right, because you know you’re so raw isn’t it. If you leave it too long it is easy to pull off. I know I’ve been there and done that I’m sure you have. I know so many people have. You’ve had a great idea and you just not good it done because you said I’ll do it next week. I’ll do it the week after it. You’re not again not rushing it but is actually doing it at a pace that’s actually manageable. And actually you’ve put some thought in it into it because in order to give quality to the guys who and girls who want to engage on the chat you have to think about it. It’s not and you can just pluck out of thin air. Sure some people will be or they will be always one or two people who probably could put an amazing to each (inaudible). But 99 percent of people can’t do it and shouldn’t do it. They should really actually consider what the value is at the customers going to customers. Well that is where I guess you could think of them because there’s what are they getting out of it? What is the audience getting? Why should they come back? and you’ve got to create the most incredible value to keep coming back because it’s a noisy noisy world. There is so much going on out there if you do actually add value and create value for people, why will they come back?

Madalyn: I love it Ben, you said it perfectly.

Ben: Yeah. Well there we are. There is one other thing I really want to so quickly pick your brains about and it goes sort of almost going full circle here. So we talked about Twitter chats and the value of those in terms of building relationships. And we talked a little bit about social media and actually how it is always been about. It’s always been about being social but it’s also the Amazon the new shiny things that keep taking over. So what is the problem that really people are facing with when it comes to conversations. What is the number one? Is it the fact that they can’t justify the ROI? or is it even something that is maybe more simple than that and it’s maybe that they try and do everything through a scheduler for example. Is there a particular issue that you find being able in so many conversations that people really struggle with in terms of actually being able to have more valuable conversations online.

Madalyn: You know it’s such an interesting question and there’s so many different ways to go with this for a response. I think that is because they just don’t know what they don’t know. Right. Like you know we’re talking about Twitter chat. I guarantee you most of the people listening did not even realize they could go hop on a Twitter chat and use that as a way to connect with people and walk away with a bunch of new friends and colleagues and people to do business with. And so I have found that with Twitter and other social media platforms there are so many ways to use this that we don’t necessarily don’t know it until someone shows us. So I think you know my best response is that there’s just too much of the I don’t know what I don’t know. So let me do what I do know and what I do but what I do know doesn’t work because at the end of the day we’re not really seeing that conversation enough we’re not seeing people embracing social media to have a conversation. So I think the best thing to do is just make a point to get on for everybody today. Get on Twitter and again go back to just people that followed you today or and if no one followed you today look at who’s the most recent people that followed you. You already have something in common with those people. They came to you you didn’t go to them. They all came to you. So why not use that opportunity if your thing is I’m trying to justify the ROI of social media, this is where ROI is right here because they’ve already come to you and said Hey I’m interested in you. I hit the button. I’m following you. So now you can start a conversation with them.

I mean they actually kind of started it a little bit and now you can jump in and have a real conversation and you will probably see some kind of ROI out of it because again as I mentioned earlier this is not a cold call. This is all a warm, a warm call because they came to you. So you use that you know I think this is just what I was saying. You don’t know what you don’t know. I’m sure most of us are going gosh I didn’t realize like if I just go to all those people they’re following me like they’re interested in me I should do something about that.

Ben: Yes.

Madalyn: So a simple little things.

Ben: Yes thing actually. Sometimes it’s so simple we overcomplicate things for the sake of overcome is it. Surely it can’t be that simple Madalyn it can’t be that simple. Go at it. Yes it is simple. Oh no. Thank you so much for coming on today Madalyn. It’s been so useful and insightful and the amount of knowledge and ideas I know that people were listening come out with is going to be unreal and actually that power of conversations and conversational marketing and actually how we need to build more conversations into it when it’s been (inaudible) into this social and general marketing strategies actually use tools that are available but don’t overly complicate what’s in front of you because actually a good all conversation can lead to good all business.

Madalyn: Well said, love it Ben.

Ben: But I can’t let you go just yet, I’ve got to ask you the question I ask everyone at the end of each show.  Madalyn what are the marketing buzz words are you loving or hating right now.

Madalyn: Well I’m really getting tired of the big buzz word we’re hearing day in and day out which is chat bots. Chat bots, chat bots it’s getting kind of old. So I know some people don’t even know what a chat bot is but chat bots is something in my social media marketing landscape right now is just a term that is just being used a little too much and we’re all get a little tired of it

Ben: Oh they’re controversial like it though. I like it because yeah it’s really hot in the press but a lot of people have been talking about it really quickly and it’s something that is most definitely a buzzword at the moment.

Madalyn: It really is it is a huge buzz word and you know there’s negative ways people are using chat bots with information. But there are some positive and I’m I’m focusing on the positive. You can do things like during a livestream. I’ll do an example, I can be on my Facebook like doing a livestream and offer some kind of lead mine it’s like I say hey I have this free report or this PDF of the top 10 you know whatever. And so I can say hey if you want this type in the word. Just type in I want this or something and you can set up a chat bot so that when people type those words you want them to say one word, yes. Like you want this type and yes ,you say yes. Now the chat bot turns on is going to send that to each of these people that said yes there’s basically an opt in. And it’s really cool.It’s just that you keep hearing about Chatbots over and over and over and over and it is being used as a really negative ways and so I’m just really tired of hearing that term Chatbot.

Ben: No. Really interesting. You have to tune into the podcast in a few weeks because we got to where we’re dissecting the exact terms.

Madalyn: Oh cool.

Ben: It’s almost,  I should have prepped you on this but I didn’t need to because you already found it. Thank you so much for coming on today Madalyn is be absolutely amazing. Thank you so much.

Madalyn: Thank you Ben. Really appreciate it. There’s been a lot of fun.

Ben: Well well I’m not sure where to start. I actually enjoyed that and I think if you’re anything like me and your you’ve taken what I did out of that show it’s the power of conversations and actually look conversations really do matter. I think it’s really easy in an age of really being gold driven monetary driven whatever goals there are actually it’s really easy to forget those conversations I know that I’ve never been to a single conference or a single marketing event or have less conversations on social media. I can’t remember I mean maybe someone said it sometime but don’t (inaudible) have less conversational don’t put the social in social media because that’s what it’s all about. But it’s amazing actually that we’re still having these conversations in 2018 when social media’s been around for so long. And I think Madalyn what’s an incredible case is actually the benefits of things like Twitter chats and just talking with people and actually look that’s how people do business.

I think it’s been a thing I’ve seen on a couple of episodes. When I first met Brian Kramer come on to, Dan Ginggiss is my very first episode talked about Social Customer Care. Brian Kramer talked about Humanisation in human marketing. I think it’s fascinating to sort of see actually look more now more than ever. We’re trying to be more human and have more conversations. I think it’s incredibly powerful and if you like me really love that and you please please do leave me review on iTunes. It really really does help and I’m sure I need to share it. John Espirian came on a couple of weeks ago. He did a (inaudible) on how you can rate this podcast on iTunes so please we do have a look. Check out Have a look at the full show notes have a look at Madalyn‘s chatlis. Her course and all you can find out more about her. Make sure you get on hashtag Twitter smarter.Twitter feed and Twitter chat if you’re know already so. So I’s so excited we’ve got some really cool episodes coming I want to tell you about them now. So I was actually recently out a social vegas engage press conference and I was able to grab a few people to do some live interviews were out there and I’m so excited to share it with you next week so you don’t wanna miss that part. Moses from social makers and now in that side of things too. Incredible because we actually talk about buzzwords because this goes and monitoring everything that’s going on social media. So many things when we were talking about the what how and why buzz words lots of phenomenal episode you do don’t miss. And also I had Tim from SCM Rush come on as well and we did a great interview about pay search and PPC policy. Mind is blown in some of these. I know I’m so excited because I love doing this. This is what I love doing. If you’re enjoying it please please do share. Spread the word and check it out in the next couple of weeks right. Thank you very much and I’ll see you next week.