Marketing Buzzword - Search Engine Optimisation - Barry Schwartz

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Hello again and welcome back to the Marketing Buzzword Podcast!

This is the podcast which helps you to understand what all of these business and marketing buzzwords actually mean, and how they can helpful going forward, and today’s buzzword is “Search Engine Optimisation (SEO)”

I’m your host Ben M Roberts and in this show I am the marketing bee in charge making sure I can get the right guests and ask the right questions to make these words and phrases make sense.

In addition, The Marketing Buzzword Podcast is now powered by Talkative. Talkative is a company that brings live chat, voice calls, video calls and co-browsing together, in one package. This allows you and your business to truly engage with your customers, offer quick and effective resolutions to questions and improve the customer experience. You can find out more at Talkative.uk

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So, how does this show work?

Simply, you, the marketing bees let me know what buzzwords you’ve been hearing, and bring them into the marketing beehive. I then bring on an expert buzzword bee from the field, who helps us identify what these buzzwords actually mean, and whether they are useful or not. Essentially, I want to de-bunk or de-mystify these words and phrases to make the marketing jargon a little easier to understand.

I’m always keen to hear about the buzzwords you are loving or hating right now so please drop me a tweet to @roberts_ben_m or simply use #marketingbuzzword on Twitter & Instagram or if you’d rather you can go on the marketingbuzzword.com website and let me know through there, and take a look at the show notes from previous guests.

Then one final thing before we get onto this weeks guest . . . if you are loving the show, please feel free to leave me a review on iTunes! It really does help boost the shows profile and make it easier to keep getting on these expert guests.

Right that’s more than enough about me. It’s time to introduce this weeks guest! This episode’s expert buzzword bee is the incredibly clever Barry Schwartz

Barry Schwartz is the CEO of RustyBrick, a New York Web service firm specializing in customized online technology that helps companies decrease costs and increase sales.

Barry Schwartz is the founder of the Search Engine Roundtable and has covered search for over 14 years. Barry is also the News Editor at Search Engine Land. Barry hosts the Search Marketing Expo in Israel and is a speaker at many search marketing conferences, including Search Engine Strategies, La Red Innova Madrid, Spain and PubCon. Barry is always at the forefront of the latest news and trends in search. He was also the former News Editor at Search Engine Watch and is a moderator at several search marketing forums. Barry has and currently provided an advisory role for GoogleYahoo! Search, Microsoft’s Bing, and several other Internet companies and many startups.

Barry is often quoted and interviewed in publications such as Forbes, Reuters, Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Bloomberg, USA Today BuinessWeek, News.com, Publish and many more. He has appeared on primetime TV, specifically NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams to talk about Google Instant and on CBS Sunday Morning with Charles Osgood in regards to mobile apps. Barry has also made multiple appearances on the TWiT network shows This Week in Google and Tech News Today. He has over a decade of hands on experience in web strategy, marketing and business optimization.

Enough small talk . . . let’s talk “Search Engine Optimisation (SEO)”

Search Engine Optimisation (SEO) Transcript between Ben M Roberts and Barry Schwartz

Ben:

Hi Barry and welcome to the podcast.

Barry:

Thanks for having me.

Ben:

That’s alright, I’m so excited to get you on. So for the guys listening at home, What are you going to be talking to me about today?

Barry:

I think we’re talking a little bit about SEO (search engine optimisation) and some of our thoughts and practices about using that as a marketing tactic in business and the Web.

Ben:

Yeah, I think you’re the absolute perfect person to get on talk about this. And I’m going to hit you with the key question, that everyone seems to be talking about the moment. You talk about for a long time, almost like so many SEO posts I see, that say SEO is dead instead as that isn’t. What are your thoughts on this, because it’s such a so many people talk about all the time. That it’s dead and that it’s a myth. Yeah I mean so the reason people are posting either a SEO is dead or a SEO is not dead.

Barry:

So the reason people are posting that SEO is dead. It’s part of a strategy to get more people to visit your one site, to get more links to your website and to get more people talking about website. So that Google ranks your website better, there’s no better way to get more links. And you know information will flow to one side. Then kind of upset and ticked off the whole entire SEO community. That being said SEO was basically just the practice of making sure your web pages on your website are discoverable, probable and somewhat rank in Google and different search engines. So it’s why websites back in the old days, even today, are just built in a way that the search engine can’t find it. Because of that it’s very simple practice of making sure, that you can take certain practices, certain technical steps, to ensure that your website can be discovered by Google and Bing and other search engines. That once it’s discovered that more ranking for the relevant keywords in the search engine. Not just pure breaking, it’s not necessary just Google organic and organic listings. It could be you know, are you ranking in the local results? Where you ranking in the Google maps results? Are you coming off a video search? Are you coming up in different locations across vertical search engines. So yes, it was pretty much the practice of making sure the website was discoverable by people searching for it, across search engines.

Ben:

Yeah, I think that’s really interesting way of looking at it. Especially to the point you made at the start, it’s almost like you creating these posts about SEO, more people interested in a SEO but almost for controversy. Some more people see a post, more people interact, Google likes it more, it show more. It’s almost like a complete self-fulfilling prophecy of SEO. You just keep mentioning this when this post recycled every other day. It’s almost draining to some point.

Barry:

Yeah, probably the first post was back on 15 years ago by somebody. Honestly people were piggybacking off of that for a while. Obviously the first couple of times people did that back in time to two years ago, when I wrote about it back. It’s the obviously is not, that people keep writing about it being dead and that by itself proves that it’s alive. It was search engine is by far number one sources for traffic on your website. Just in the past, I want to point my Facebook and social media was their number one for traffic source and that actually Google and search engines actually surpassed that. I think several months ago, according to many sources out there. So it is definitely one of the most driving forces of traffic to a website as well as the one of the mobile forces of conversions for a website or insurance.

Ben:

It’s interesting because it’s one those things, that when most people think about SEO, they think about some of the technical nuances. They think about out tags or keywords. All the technical stuff, canonical tags but then they also almost forget SEO can drive conversations itself. Almost where the SEO is dead post as an example, there are so many more out there. But it’s where actually SEO is drawing conversations, not even just within the SEO community itself. Can you think of any good examples out there where is really driving other conversations? And it happens to have an SEO benefit but it’s actually almost creating natural conversations in itself.

Barry:

Within a person’s website or on Google search results page themselves. And so what do you driving a conversation?

Ben:

I guess almost in a sense, on a website where people are creating content to get found. So creating content almost for Google. So that content itself is almost creating conversations in itself and it’s almost having that dual effect.

Barry:

Right, I mean there is dead type of post or just in general about using a SEO to drive people to websites, you start more conversations. Having you know comments or forums or reviews is the point.

Ben:

In both context really, in how they’re looking at how the similar and how the differences were really. In terms of, where is there good crossover? Where they completely different we’re at it?

Barry:

Obviously, as you know it was about driving traffic to your a website. So if your website is about you know selling something. You might not care about the user engagement aspect of driving more conversations on your website. It might be just about the conversion. If you have a blog with comments, you probably want to drop a lot of comments and conversation around if you write SEO is dead. You might want a lot of people fighting in the comments , saying SEO is not dead and so forth. Then fighting about it and that adds more content to website. At the same time the engagement factors, although it is important, it is not very easy for Google to measure engagement. So often in case you have lots of user generated content on your website. That content might be someone are written in a very amateur fashion may be starting with a spelling issues, typos and so forth and that might be a bad signal in terms of your content on your website. You will sometimes they tell you user generated content is great but if the content is spammy or written poorly and so forth. That might reflect on the content on the web page of it as a whole and that might actually hurt in search results. While you do want to have engaging website in those engaging metrics might be very important those of us Those metrics shouldn’t be in quantity in terms of comments or quantity in terms of traffic. You really want that the comments, the engagement will be the content and all the stuff around it to be relevant to that content on that page. So summarise if someone is going to your website into spamming in writing whatever they want in their time. To troll people, it may actually end up hurting your overall value web page itself or the website itself. Where you need to actually have a lot of moderation about that conversation and a moderate to make sure that people are posting, steer that conversation. To a very intelligent or useful matter. So that your other users are not turned off by that.

Ben:

Yeah, I think that’s an incredibly important point isn’t. It’s making sure that it’s not all about the quantity and quantity plays its part. But if you’re driving loads of traffic and poor quality stuff, it actually ends up having a negative effect. It’s almost like with link building in inverted commas, where you get thousands and thousands of the links from really crappy sites. That will ultimately you might get small spike and crash and burn. Whereas actually a small number but real quality links actually have a much better effect in the short and maybe the long term.

Barry:

That’s exactly right. It’s not about quantity anymore these days. It used to be about as much  as fast as possible. So as many links as possible, as many content pages as possible, target as many different keywords as possible. Then that strategies stop working so well with, I guess, the various Google algorithm updates. Specifically on the content side, around content (Panda) and around the link side (Penguin). It’s not just about quality it’s more specifically about the quality versus the quantity.

Ben:

So in essence, I knew it was one of those things where the all this black hat, white hat, grey hat terms are get bounded about again. So is more buzzwords in itself. So is link building, is almost trying to get the best quality links. Is that almost trying to manipulate the system in itself? Or is it that just generally good practice? What were your thoughts around that?

Barry:

So I mean obviously getting links for the purpose of ranking better is almost by definition manipulating Google search engine. Google algorithm works based off of content and links/ And if you’re going about the purpose of search results to make you higher. That by definition is manipulating google search results. Not against the guidelines because lots of specific ones that are against guidelines but they want you to get natural links. So if you’re going out there with an effort of doing link building that by definition is not necessary an actual link. Link building by definition is not natural. You want to build content, tools, etc. Something that people want to read, share with you and so forth. You don’t want to go ahead and build content and then begin building link building campaigns around it, you want to make sure the content itself is something people want to share. Their blogs and social media and so forth which will then naturally lead to more links to web page naturally.

Ben:

Yeah incredible point it is all about actually how natural it is and in creating value as well. And if you’re creating the right sort of value then the links build almost themselves. It’s all about the, like you said, it’s all about the quality. Create quality content that quality content will drive more natural links which ultimately isn’t spammy and it’s more natural.

Barry:

Yeah exactly. It’s really thinking about what you can do that’s unique and helpful and new users will love. That maybe the competitors are not doing and that’s the hard part obliviously. Because there so much out there on the Internet, there’s so many mobile apps, so many tools on the web, so many mobile web pages. And finding something you can do unique and useful, that your competitors are not doing, that’s the challenge. But when you do find that, there is significant reward. In terms of, organic search, SEO, social media and everything.

Ben:
Yeah. In that vein then, with the way that SEO is changing, what are the better ways of being able to find some of those opportunities? Do you still look at tool such as Google’s AdWords platform or malls or any other tool like that? To sort of get keyword ideas and enjoy traffic through that way. Or do you actually speak to your customers and try and do it almost in a way, that you don’t know if Google’s going to rank for it but you’re creating value in that sense. Or do you just use just the AdWords platforms which will say this gets lots of traffic. You should create more content around this.

Barry:
What I do versus the SEO community is kind of different. The SEO community definitely uses these tools, use AdWords, use keywords planner, they use the malls store. To get keywords and ideas. They, of course, use their internal search keywords data. The internal searches are very important because that’s what the customers are searching for on their website. I always think it’s a good idea to speak to your customers. And use what your customers are saying about you, what you talking to your customers about as well. Because you can make use a technical term to describe your product and services whereas customers who are looking for that product and service might describe it a completely different. You are really critical term, in terms of, the specific product you are selling and your customers searching for it completely different. You know that we’re going to make sure write content in a way that your customers are searching for that content. I mean I personally when I write content I do know about the search community so I could use what the community is talking about and that’s where I get my views for content. So, I follow the community very closely, I follow them on discussion forums, I follow them on Twitter Facebook and social media as well. Hear what the community is talking about and based on what community is talking about I get my content ideas. I’m constantly writing about what the community itself is talking about based on what I’m finding out from social media and discussion forums.

Ben:
Yeah, I think that’s such a great way of doing it. Again, because you involved in this forum, you’re actually writing content for the people that actually want to read it. Ultimately with people asking these questions. I think one other point you made was obviously the internal search function and I think it’s also really important for companies out of contact centers and call centers, where if a customer is asking the question either of your website, your chat bot, your live chat, your call center agents whatever it is. If they’re asking the question there, the chances are they’re asking those questions of the search engine anyway. So, by answering the questions in one place, you’re able to actually build SEO and your rankings. You create quality content from all those natural questions.

Barry:
Exactly. I mean it’s been working for me. I’ve been writing about SEO and the search community for almost 15 years now. Every day I write about 5 unique articles, Monday through Friday. I usually write from 7am and 8am and I always scratch my head, how do I always find 5 new things to write about without fail. Writing between 4 – 6 stories SEO and that’s all coming from what the community is talking about.

Ben:
These things, it’s almost like a never-ending source of content. Because everyone has their own unique spin, their unique views, unique experiences and all of that actually plays in and always helps build a lot of relevant content. You create lots of relevant quality content then the search engines go see you as an authority upon that subject. Therefore, your rankings go higher so even if it’s not necessarily directly a question if it’s relevant and interesting then actually you’re doing a good thing anyway for your SEO.

Barry:
Yeah exactly. It’s always about becoming authority on some level. It’s not easy and there was doesn’t always work. But I always tell people when you’re writing content, you want people to say hey this content should be ranking in google. And if it’s not, it’s embarrassing of Google. Someone who works in the search department and for some reason your web page is not ranking for a specific query. When everybody knows that it should, if it’s not, google has to go back there and say why is our app not ranking this page in the first top five results. There must be somethings wrong with the algorithmn. Of course there were Google doesn’t like to be wrong. But eventually if you are searching for satellites and astronauts and NASA is not coming up, you are not going to take Google seriously. So that’s everybody’s, I guess dream, or you know their are some ultimate goal is to make sure that you know I’m one of the most relevant the most useful, compared to all the other billions of creators out there. based on that, you want your content to rank well and Google wants it to rank well.

Ben:
Yeah exactly. With that then, if people are coming up with great content ideas, great ways of something that’s really useful for their customers. How much does the average marketer content creator have to know about technical SEO? If you are writing content, how do you need to go into all the different nuances or should there be an overview of it. And really need someone else in, who’s going to work on the real aspects.

Barry:
Oh, that’s a good question. That depends on what type of content publishing and where. Sites like word press are already search engine friendly, so there not much you need to do your WordPress. A lot of e-commerce platforms these days are search engine friendly. It’s not like 10 years ago, if you build something, use a platform or build you own website and nothing was SEO friendly. The URLs would be, cookie information in it and then flash website that search engine couldn’t access obstacles, most CNS platforms didn’t do well back in the day. Now all have standards built in to them. There are little things you can do depending on the type of industry you are in. Some of the things around schema and spark frame data. So, if you are e-commerce website you want to have things like product reviews, pricing mark off. And that requires a little bit of technical know-how. But at the same time a lot of e-commerce websites have that built into it. Or if you have a podcast and there’s video schema and review schema and structured data markup. Lot of tools you can use, that’s all available. On the google developer side, and it’ll research consult itself and there are a lot of tools to validate that stuff. Of course, there’s other things, outside schema, making your website HTTPS which is not a major linking factor but it’s important. With mobile is making your website able to loads, renders and easy to read on a mobile. Google’s going to crawl the web from a mobile first perspective. Particularly with the expansion, in the upcoming weeks, things like mobile snippets. Making sure you come up above the first ranking and works with by Google assistance and Google home. I mean there’s a whole list of stuff that is somewhat technical but also not that. In terms of, stuff you really need to know as all these platforms have it already built into it. WordPress and you click one button to make your site mobile friendly. Stuff like that that seems to just work, that you don’t have to think about too much. But when you have a really really site like Amazon, that’s custom built. Technical SEO is very important in terms of how you prioritise what pages google will first and how often. Things like how you prioritise points of interest in the website, the title tag e, dynamic level, product descriptions. All these types of stuff matters when you are dealing large site just to try and optimize the speed and the efficiency of Google crawling in the website. It really depends on how large you are and how big of a website you have and whether things are automated, so you don’t have to worry about it.

Ben:
Yeah, I think that there are so many things in there that actually sound more technical than they are. And actually, if you trying to get to grips SEO, it doesn’t actually take too long to get up some of these. But again, if you had a massive site you probably want to look at having someone who’s going to be more a specialist. Amazon will have of lots of specialist SEO people whereas someone who’s a two-man band is not going to have an SEO specialist. But you’re going to have to get some sort of knowledge for yourself, to be able to make sure that you’re not actually losing on some of these things. You’re actually able to capture as much of that link use, get the callers to go through your website as efficiently as possible. Some of those not really that technical but really really important.

Barry:
Well some days it sounds reasonable. You can just google SEO Ah it does go to war. You know first ones going to be from Moz, Wikipedia.

Ben:
Search engine round table.

Barry:
Yeah. So, I don’t have a guide on SEO because I don’t have a doctorate on what is SEO, some sites do. But there’s a sort of guide on SEO from Google itself, google SEO starter guide and the official documents from Google themselves comes up on what to watch out for, what to look for. And that probably the most authoritative thing because knowing the basics is most important so you are not ripped off or lead down the wrong path. Especially link building and so forth. I would definitely recommend that you google SEO starter guide. And it should be on google.com and tell you what to look out for.

Ben:
Well, that’s a great bit of advice. Again, it’s right from the horse’s mouth, again if it’s at the top of Google even if it’s Google themselves they’re going to be more authoritative. You know it’s good to have the authority and the weight behind it.

Barry:
This is unbiased. People say google hates SEOs, that’s not true. They spent a lot of time and resources to help SEOs. So definitively read that document and if you want any more there is loads all over the internet.

Ben:
Yeah, I know I can’t agree more. I’m a huge fan of Search Engine Land. I know I spoke at SMX London last year and I think it’s just an incredible sort of resource there so hopefully anyone listening make sure you go to search engine land. Honestly, I use that still as my main source of knowledge as well and that’s essentially how we connected really because I’ve seen the stuff that Barry was doing through there and it just makes a huge amount of sense if you are listening about and re want to get into SEO. I do recommend wholeheartedly Search Engine Land.

Barry:
Thank you.

Ben:
And on this then, one of the other questions I had then as you were talking earlier you mentioned AMP. And I know AMP is still something that seems that really divide people in terms of whether it has benefits or whether it’s more hassle than it’s worth. What are some of your thoughts around AMP the way it’s developing and changing.

Barry:
Yeah like you said topic within the community, mostly Google vs community itself. Google has a history of building new cool features for webmasters and then we’ll remove those features as a couple of years later because it just doesn’t work out. I see things like Authorship where thumbnail of author is shown. The list goes on structure things and are removed later. A lot of cool feature people had in the past required webmasters to make changes to their code. For it to actually come up in their search results has come and gone over the years. But you know google keeps trying things, they want to make things better and you should do the same thing. You should keep experimenting with your own website. See what works and what doesn’t work, then move on, that’s what google is doing. Compared to other things and Google is investing tremendous amounts of time, resources, money and they are been around for a few years now are. It’s very easy to implement, it even easier to do it custom method. They came out with something new that’s a little bit more complicated up. The general principles are very very easy to implement. Ah that’s more impressive. Whilst US platforms have it have it. There’s controversy around, why so send someone my AMP page over my own page which I could actually manage and get more ad revenue so there is a lot of back and forth a lot of controversy around it. I do think AMP here to stay for the next few years. At least the next decade but not 20-30 years as Google would like it to. out for 23 years who will make it to go was definitely worth while. I think Google has invested a lot of time and resources to AMP, then they done with before with previous things they’ve killed off. Same time it’s not that much effort to get Pam going, assuming this is somewhat easy to build. I know I have a custom CMS cloud for search engine round table. Where I was able to produce AMP content dynamically in a couple of hours. And now it just runs by themselves so it’s very easy to implement and more impressive if you put the hours in. Oh, definitely recommend people not wait. I’m usually the first person to do I. So, when Google announced GPS. People are nervous of how it would go. I switched over a couple of websites, within couple weeks. Just so I could be a guinea pig and say hey this is how it works. Share that experience with people. Well mobile first kinds of things, that I tried quickly. I’d like to come and try things out as soon as possible, report back. Well I will be able to ask people how it went. You know worst case scenario, I get a hit in the rankings a while. But as long as it doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. So, I like to share that with people.

Ben:
I think that’s great news, you are using yourself as a Guinea pig and that’s what I love about the content that you’ve been creating. Is the fact that a lot of it is based upon your own experience and not just do this, do this and do this. Because I told you so, it’s actually, this is what I’ve done, this is what I’ve learned, this is what worked well was what went badly and how we can actually and how you can implement it going forward and I think that’s really important point to make. Is it not actually being scared, it’s actually these developments are ultimately going to help Google’s not going to turn around and make a tool that’s going into a downgrade to the bottom of its own rankings. It may have some sort of little impact here and there but again with SEO itself it’s a volatile industry anyway. Things move up and down all the time, nothing is set in. Nothing is guaranteed.

Barry:
Yeah but they are making changes to your CMS or changing your structure and changing your domain. It’s a scary thing because you know moving all your singles HTTPS to cloud. These things are massive change in terms of SEO because there is somewhat of a scary thing to do so I blame people for being scared. But you know over time SEO should do in an efficient manner. I’ll have to experiment and see how it goes. Starting on a site that they’re all more comfortable and then see how that goes. That makes a huge amount of sense isn’t it. It’s doing the right thing at the right time and trying to test a little bit here and there again. When you try make massive changes to your livelihood, it’s on the lines. So, everyone’s a little bit skeptical because ultimately it did go wrong. That’s potentially your business up in smoke so you can understand why people are skeptical.

Ben:
Yes 100%, I don’t blame them for being cautious, careful and meticulous about any types of changes.

Barry:
I want to test, test, test because what works for one website, definitely may not work for another website. You considered when making these changes whether it works for me or not. It’s been proved many times while it makes on one side may not work on another. Due to certain SEO codes and Google algorithm. So, I would suggest that test it on subpart of our website to get it working then test again. Yeah that.

Ben:
Yeah and on that note though you’ve just mentioned that almost every website is unique, every website is different, every industry has its own little sort of nuances. Are there any sort of real common mistakes you see or sort of errors that you see creep in more often than not? It seemed almost transcends different industries verticals and website types.

Barry:
The biggest one you see that destroyed sites is blocking it from Google indexing.

Ben:
And from my experience that’s really easily done which is quite annoying on some websites.

Barry:
Yeah actually I had a large Fortune 500 company call me with their SEO team for a one-hour SEO consult. I don’t do that many SEO consults, but they couldn’t figure out trying what’s going on around. You know when I do an SEO counsel I ask for more information upfront, I say I’ll give you our hour for whatever you want to ask me. The web page can’t crawl this page since it’s blocked. You can see it in the source code. Oh, wait you saw there’s been redirect in index from the issue or something will redirect. I think that SEO team is no longer working there. It is common problem especially with CNS, there’s a lot of things going on behind the scenes hard to see what’s going on. But there is no index and the crawler are blocked.

Ben:
Yeah, I think that’s a great point when I started work and it was silly mistake that’s easily done again. If you haven’t got that sort of fundamental overview on the technical part best you, it’s a really easy mistake to make is lucky that Fortune 500 company had the budget. But even with a company that size is still managed to make that error and think about how difficult it can be for a one man one or two-man bands. So, it’s really important that people actually have an overview of really of these important critical factors. Ultimately if Google can’t call your site at all and you’re relying on that site to make money. It’s very much a deal breaker.

Barry:
Right 100 percent. And I think we will have one core useful tool specially with search counsel and that process. I think it will do as we just they go ahead and start to verify the website the process, so they can use Google Analytics, they should do the same things with google search console.  Because the information and value from those tools from google search counsel can be very useful, especially with hacked content or core s no mistakes. Google will have you notified that via email, do you have your website registered.

Ben:
Yeah, I can 100 % vouch for that. That search console is absolutely incredible. I know my previous company that disavow file also became my best friend really start when someone started spamming us loads of links and stuff. That became a nice little nice little friend as well.

Barry:
Yeah 100 %. These tools are valuable tools, you can actually add on to your platform as well. There are lots of tools in the SEO community. There no shortage of tool at all and that’s a good thing. Obviously knowing how the tools work. How they can help you is another challenge. But the bare minimum, you should start with google search console.

Ben:
I think that’s an absolutely brilliant way. To sort of wrap ups of SEO I really want to thank you for coming on because I think it provides some real insight, and some real structure, to what SEO means. How it’s used and what’s the fundamental factors around it and how every website is different. Yet there are certain key factors that need to be addressed. It’s actually all about the quality of stuff, it’s no longer about getting as many links as possible, posting as much content as possible. It’s all about actually how it is relevant and how is it adding value and actually that in itself is going to be the biggest factor to you. Well not the biggest factor is could be a huge factor in terms of your SEO performance.

Barry:
Exactly. I really appreciate being on the show.

Ben:
I’m sure that’s right. Before I let you go Barry, I’m going to ask you like I do everyone else. Is what other business marketing buzzwords are you seeing out there right now? That you either love or hate

Barry:
I am not sure. You may have stumped me. I mean I’m not a big buzzwords fan. Yeah yeah actually stump me. I’m sorry.

Ben:
It’s one of the things, I’ve got listed like a hundred something buzzwords now set up from this podcast. People don’t always necessarily, they just use a lot of words all the time and they hear a lot of words and it almost becomes part of the conversation. But the reason obviously I set the podcast, is trying to help people understand what’s those words actually mean cause. People say things like SEO and they just use it as a term. Are you doing link building? Whether it’s like growth hacking.

Barry:
I was going to say that the term, SEO have stopped using that. I’m a growth hacker. It was popular a couple of years ago, but I don’t like that terms. Hacking is not a. Especially these days, with administration, governments and Russia. Whatever you want to call it. It’s not a great term to be using these days. And | think a lot of people have pulled it out of their title. There are still some that have a title of growth hacker. But I think it died down a lot. I never personally liked it, so I am happy it died down. But there are a lot of words in SEO, you know technical terms. With Google’s featured snippets, you can google all these terms, in a box about the link. Exampling the term, stripping the information from the website. Using that in their google voices system as well. So, it’s interesting watching but I think one piece of advice, that Google’s will start to look at voice search and featured snippets to see how much is too much.

Ben:
Yeah and I think that’s incredible. The power the voice search is going to have going forward. It’s always creating new revolution in terms of SEO and I think that’s something I’m definitely bringing on is another sort of term to go forward. So, thank you so much for coming on today. Barry’s been absolute pleasure. You provide some incredible insight for this.

Barry:
Thank you.

Ben:
Thanks Barry.

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