Marketing Buzzword - Millennial Marketing - Ash Phillips

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Hello again and welcome back to the Marketing Buzzword Podcast!

This is the podcast which helps you to understand what all of these business and marketing buzzwords actually mean, and how they can helpful going forward, and today’s buzzword is “Millennial Marketing”

I’m your host Ben M Roberts and in this show I am the marketing bee in charge making sure I can get the right guests and ask the right questions to make these words and phrases make sense.

In addition, The Marketing Buzzword Podcast is now powered by Talkative. Talkative is a company that brings live chat, voice calls, video calls and co-browsing together, in one package. This allows you and your business to truly engage with your customers, offer quick and effective resolutions to questions and improve the customer experience. You can find out more at Talkative.uk

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So, how does this show work?

Simply, you, the marketing bees let me know what buzzwords you’ve been hearing, and bring them into the marketing beehive. I then bring on an expert buzzword bee from the field, who helps us identify what these buzzwords actually mean, and whether they are useful or not. Essentially, I want to de-bunk or de-mystify these words and phrases to make the marketing jargon a little easier to understand.

I’m always keen to hear about the buzzwords you are loving or hating right now so please drop me a tweet to @roberts_ben_m or simply use #marketingbuzzword on Tiwtter & Instagram or if you’d rather you can go on the marketingbuzzword.com website and let me know through there, and take a look at the show notes from previous guests.

Then one final thing before we get onto this weeks guest . . . if you are loving the show, please feel free to leave me a review on iTunes! It really does help boost the shows profile and make it easier to keep getting on these expert guests.

Right that’s more than enough about me. It’s time to introduce this weeks guest! This episode’s expert buzzword bee is a friend and all round top guy, and his name is Ash Phillips.

At 19, Ash dropped out of university to start his first business. Realising how tough a task it was without any support around him, he found it to be a lonely & costly journey with a huge learning curve.

3 years later, after building a career in the digital and creative marketing industry, Ash founded Yena – a global community of rebellious minds. Yena connects founders & startups with each other and offers the support they need to start & grow remarkable businesses. Now 4 years old, Yena is situated in 10 cities across the UK and growing internationally in 2018.

Since Yena’s growth and success, Ash has been named on reputable lists such as the Maserati100, featured in press such as The Sunday Times & Forbes, and won awards like Mentor/Advisor of the Year vs people 20+ years his senior, now helping to connect thousands of people and working closely with hundreds of startups each year.

You can get in touch with or find out more about Ash in any of these places:

Yena Website

Yena Facebook Page

Ash’s Twitter

Enough small talk . . . let’s talk “Millennial Marketing”

Millennial Marketing Interview between Ash Phillips and Ben M Roberts

Ben:
Hi ash and welcome to the podcast.

Ash:
Hi Ben, how are you?

Ben:
Great, thank you. Yourself?

Ash:
Good, good, awesome. Thank you.

Ben:
So, for the guys listening at home, who are you and what you do.

Ash:
My name is Ash Phillips and I’m the founder and director of an organisation called Yena. We are a global community of rebellious individuals. So we connect people that are starting a growing business with entrepreneurial minds all over the UK currently. As well as moving into other countries this year. And we do that as a membership organization, helping people to start grow their businesses. By providing them with the resources, education, community that they need.

Ben:
Rebellious mind. I can see this is going to be, a little more controversial on this one.
So what buzzword were you going to talk about today? What is your buzzword?

Ash:
So today we’re talking about, Millennial marketing is a buzzword, I suppose. But that’s what we’re talking about so yeah.

Ben:
So, millennial marketing, give me a quick intro on what it is, about that buzzword and why, you think, people should or shouldn’t use the word.

Ash:
So. A lot of people talk about sitting on the fence with certain things and I think in the instance of this buzzword, I’m on both sides of the fence but nowhere in the middle of it. So, I understand what people mean, when they talk about millennial marketing in inverted commas. And by that they mean, marketing to a new generation: the generation that thinks differently; they operate differently; to do different things. And that’s because every new generation does it, grows up with a different way of thinking. In this instance, it grows up with a different way of technology and a different way of approaching society, in the likes of social media, etc. But, using the word millennial and I understand to define an age group but I never know exactly what the age group it is. But is just a little bit vague for me and it’s a little bit marginalizing. I don’t want to be, what people it’s called a snowflake, about it and I’m not offended by the word millennial. But I just think it’s a bit cliche. I think actually every time someone new is born, there’s a new generation created. So putting people into too much of a box and kind of stifles learning. We need to be learning more and more, about what the next eighteen-year-old wants, not just what they want in the next five years and next ten years. So that’s why I get what they mean, but I also think that people are creating too slow a moving train of thought, they need to be thinking about it more dynamically than every decade.

Ben:
It’s interesting. When I first heard the term, I sort of thought, “oh I get it someone who’s born around the millennium”. Then actually it wasn’t just people who were born around the millennium and it was something that included someone who was born from 1985 to 2000s. I thought, you know what I mean, I’m not the most politically correct person in the world and I don’t agree most of this things. Since I hear so many marketers suddenly putting the stereotype on someone.  Everywhere else in the world, people try to smash their stereotypes left, right and center on everything from, gender to race trying. To smash every stereotype apart, then marketers go, no your generations Z and your generation Y. And to me, actually, that doesn’t make sense. It just seems like a fluffy jargon word, that actually has no real context to it. What does it actually mean?

Ash:
Exactly, I completely agree with that. So when people come to me and they go, “OK, I really get what you do. You’re building a community for millennials”. And I say absolutely not. What we’re doing is, we’re building a community for the next generation of business leaders. Because, as you say, putting people into a specific box is dangerous for us to do. It means, that we start thinking about people only by their age, not by circumstance. You know people are brought up in different countries to one another, will operate in different ways culturally, they’ll be interested in lots of different things. Families they were born into will often define the things they’re interested in, be that music, be that sport, be that food and drink. There are lots and lots of things, that will define people and doesn’t necessarily mean that we operate in a certain way. There might be some common denominators here and there. But just because you and I both grew up with Facebook, for example, doesn’t mean somebody from India or certainly somebody from China has Facebook, even though we are the same age, because they can’t. All of those things that people kind of put in a pigeonhole. I think it’s much more beneficial to be dynamic, understand everybody has their own idiosyncrasies and we should appreciate those from a marketing point of view. We should put people into certain types of audiences but not expect it to appeal to a whole generation of people.

Ben:
This is really interesting because it’s so generic and I can’t find a context where I could apply it. And say a millennial, is this from your experience of dealing with people within your community which is growing, are there any common traits for millennial people. I don’t even know, at age group we were talking about with the 1985 to 2005 range. Is there any word in there, that sort of you can say for people in that age group? There is a sort of a kinds traits or characteristics, that would be a go, yes that’s a millennial.

Ash:
No, and that’s why I suppose, millennial marketing as a buzzword is created. Because if you’re a practitioner of that, rather than someone you just talks about it. By definition, you should understand, that there are so many subtle nuances between people within that generation. As there have been many generations, whether in the art or the science or both. Depending on the way you look at it all, doing working well at school. Millennial marketing is understanding, there are differences in those people and different campaigns will suit different people. Within that whole generation of people that, people have generalized. So for me, I can look at the community, we have which arguably is most people will define as millennial. Say OK, of these people who 9of them will be on social media. So that’s a large large large majority but still not a certainty, there are people that will come to events and say they’re not on it. Because they’re part of, what is likely a new generation of people who refuse that become, social media refusers because the generation of all them grew up with it and so it’s 98% always ever changing. A good quote unquote millennial marketer, well I understand that and adapt as time goes on, understand that there are no certainties and maybe a large majority is that is something that they would want to capitalize on as audiences.

Ben:
So essentially, what I am getting from that is. Millennial marketing is just a really really lazy way of putting a target market. And say, “Who do you target, I target millennial”. And someone just used hide that, they don’t know what they target, “I want to be hip and with it or whatever”. You know, I mean, though it’s like people are just using it as a term when they have they have no understanding. Because I do, from my perspective, I look at the principles of the marketing are exactly the same issues. The lazy way of typecasting people going, young they must be on Facebook, they must be on Twitter. If you’re actually looking it’s an age group is, if it’s as big as I think it is, you’re talking sort of 15-20 years in 50 years. That is completely different, I mean the people who, at one end, they were growing up in the ‘80s when they were watching back to the future. And the next has grown up with new toy light. I mean, it has two completely different eras. Two from meetings, I know that people younger and younger are using Facebook in a completely different way, to people in the other end of the spectrum. But actually are the principles though, the same. So if I’m a marketer and I am a marketer. But if, I’m on the news targeting a someone who’s 40+ and then talk to someone who’s 20+. Could my product be appropriate for the twenty and the forty now? Are the principles the same and then does it just require some slight refinements or are actually the principles completely different for someone sort of two decades apart?

Ash:
So our first answer to a question, that popped up within that I’ll answer that one certainly. But there’s just something slightly jarring, for most people but slightly controversial for me Is that yes, I think it is just a vaguely used term and actually for marketing agencies to be able to market themselves to clients they recognize. So I’ve run agencies and finding our niche was one of the most powerful things we did. Now as somebody, who falls quite neatly into this millennial generation this demographic, in this stereotype. I could have if I wanted to, I didn’t but I could have gone to clients and said: “Hey I’m an expert in marketing to millennials”. Because I am one myself, I know exactly how they think and I know exactly what they want Then I would smartly go and find every single person, I could and tell them I do that and help them. I know well now, it’s not because I know millennials perfectly. Well, it’s just because I know, how I think just this is just a state of mind, it’s just a psychology. So for that Generation and they just think in a slightly different way because they’ve grown up with different circumstances. As happens, every single year so exactly as you said and to answer your main question it’s the same thing but just a different psychology so you use a really good example. I like to think of gaming as a great example. So for me, growing up, so I was born in 1989. Me growing up, the first game console that I had was a Super Nintendo. So there’s me, playing on something that was like. You know flat and really Arcady then it would have been like the n64 then the first PlayStation and so on and so on and so on up to the PlayStation four now. Now there are people still within the demographic that started with the first PlayStation. Or possibly even the PlayStation two. I am on the same lines as you and don’t actually know what the true definition of the end of that demographic is. But they would have grown up with completely different circumstances to me. Then that we might think in a similar way because our general circumstances might have been similar. We kind of grew up during a financial depression. We kind of grew up during an age, where the housing market was all over the place. Kind of grew up during an age, where the world’s a little bit confused politically and so on and so on. But you get into the end degree, anything about things like gaining If you’re running a company that’s that’s developing a game. Then just being as broad as you can with the word millennial marketing is nowhere near enough. If you’re developing an old school game that you might have wanted to see on a Super Nintendo. Then you’re going to need to market it to people that might have been born between ‘87 to ‘92 because those are the people like me that started on that console and will get the nostalgia. If you sell some things in Playstation two generation, that might not be quite right for me and you might want to hit people at ‘95. I don’t know when it came out but you see what I mean. There are subtle nuances and and little things within that big big vague term of millennial. That true marketer’s good marketers will understand more the psychology around and deliver far better campaigns than just doing a one size fits all.

Ben:
What we are getting this is almost like scrap off this term millennial marketing and actually use it as a term to target better. Because everything I’m reading and thinking about what you’re saying and the one thing stuck out to me almost like millennial marketing is a term used by marketers to target other marketers. Is not really used by anyone else it. You could look at content marketing as an example of this content is how marketers talk to other marketers. For me, I don’t read an article have great content. Or the blogs have great content it could be a good buzzword within the right contexts it.

Ash:
I mean, it’s just supposed. It quickly interrupts, it’s a good buzzword because it’s exactly that, it’s a buzzword it and a buzzword is a suppose. I mean, you’ll probably have a definition of this at the start the show, at some point in this podcast series. But for me, I suppose is a word that is used by a certain specific type of person. Maybe within a certain sector, that mostly people within that sector will understand not necessarily deal with the inside of it. So if you are developing a game then you might talk about specific types of coding languages, your customers have no idea what they just want to play a good game. If you’re in sales, then you might talk about ROI (return on investment). Putting effort in and budget in and you want to see X. That amount is hopefully more than you put in. The Customers don’t care about your return on investment, they just want you to sell them good products and services. So that buzzword will only resonate with other salespeople or other people within your organization close to the sales department. Customer may not actually understand what an ROI is because they don’t need to.

Ben:
So yeah. Exactly what you said. It’s almost a one-upmanship or it’s almost like a just a stamp. There we kind of all fall in line. with the thing, there’s probably a slight amount of peer pressure and very social proof that goes along with using certain buzzwords. That help other people to assume that we know, what we’re talking about when actually some people just bang them around like there’s no tomorrow. Hence what they’re pocketed by and they don’t actually know what they’re talking about. So now I think this is a good time to actually define. What I’m going to read out the definition of a Millennial. Yes, we can sort of we’ve all had sketch of what we think it could be. The definition of it goes, Millennial, also known as Generation Y. The demographic cohort following generation X. So again, following the generation, there are no precise dates when this cohort starts or ends. But typically used the early 1980s starting birth years and the mid-1990s. So again we’re going anywhere there’s fifteen years already

Ash:
Oh yeah.

Ben:
Sometimes goes to early 2000s sometimes referred to as echo boomers do to make major surgery birth rates in the ‘80s and ‘90s and basically say it goes on to say that they’ve got characteristic vary by region as it would depend on social economic conditions but generally marked with an increased use and familiarity with communications media and digital technology in most parts of the world that was marked by an increase in the liberal approach to politics and economics so essentially

Ash:
Wow

Ben:
Yes, it’s a massive thing and you get so basically always saying bottom line. Is if I look at that definition it’s essentially, someone who can you can talk online.

Ash:
See you just like narrowed it down to a very short sentence. By that definition, which is full ironically of buzzwords but yeah you’re right it’s the online generation. So that’s that’s nice that gets the new audience narrowed down a little bit but that’s nowhere near narrow enough. To sell someone something, if using it from a marketing point of view so as a millennial marketer. Let’s say somebody is called that if your millennial marketer and great, marketing to people to understand out here is an online system. As well done, that’s not necessarily going to get you sales. Now everybody understands, how to use their phone or you know supercomputing in our pockets now. By comparison to what the early part of the millennial generation was dealing with. And so that’s good all well and good. But they’re also much smarter about the technology, they have now they understand how advertising works to them. Lots of us have adblockers on our computers now so. They need to understand the people in way way way more depth than they’re online. Because as an agency you know, if I was to break up to a client meeting and pitch. Well, we’re millennial marketing agency, great. Client goes awesome that’s a demographic we want to hear what do you know about them. And I to around to go, well they’re online that’s not enough to one win that pitch, it’s not enough for me to reach that audience. I might know how to run a Facebook ad but the reason Facebook ads allow you to be so so so specific because Facebook understands completely they’re targeting just an age demographic is nowhere near enough. That people differentiate enough to be within narrow within their own demographic and their own stereotypes and whether that’s a stereotype of one person and everybody’s individual. Or whether that’s a stereotype of a thousand people but far more.

Ben:
Is millennial marketing then almost a transformation of old-school advertising. Where you went really generic. Put an advert here because these people are at a rock concert they like rock music and without actually taking context on it, they could be the people there. Or sporting event they’re watching football or bet they love football, we’re going to some sports equipment. Actually, most people there are middle-aged overweight and haven’t kicked the football in ten years and I am also being generalistic.

Ash:
Of course.

Ben:
Because then isn’t millennial marketing just a way of people trying to cling on to the old school style of thinking. Because new advertising doesn’t if you look at new advertising on LinkedIn Twitter or Facebook. If you look at even programmatic advertising, you look at all these native advertising. It’s no longer about I’m going to put things there. I mean, I see on the news people websites, they frustrate the life out of me. Because, basically, I’m reading a certain article, I’m receiving an ad based on something that I made like because I’m reading an article. So I read an article about a car, so I’ll then get an advert for  Auto Trader. Well no, I’m not looking at buying a car. Sure, it’s going to be relevant to someone but actually, it’s not specific enough. I think it’s just a sort of feeling we’re all getting from this then. It’s just becoming less specific. Actually one of the other things I was reading when I was doing that definition, is that it was basically talked about it being the digital world basically saying these people, Generation Y, have increased familiarity with digital technologies now. I don’t know about you but I feel like all it is. I don’t know, how do I define this. It’s actually becoming less and less relevant because I know so many people who are actually great technology no matter what age. I mean I don’t know a generation that can’t use an iPad because technology is so damn simple. People can do all these things yes there are little nuances but I know plenty of people millennial age who wouldn’t be able to access the Dark web, as I knew there would be a new plenty of forty-year-olds that could access the dark web. I mean this is all sorts of little things that. I’m not promoting the use of the Dark Web. But the point is though it’s actually the digital world has been around for 15-20 years. I think people are not stupid actually and it’s like the millennial market not the first on this digital tech platforms anymore. They might go in them quickly you know but they are quickly colonised by everyone else. I mean how many young people are starting to turning away from Facebook because their parents, their grandparents are on that or they don’t use Facebook in the same way anymore. When I did, I had this time-hop thing when I look back at my Facebook posts. Even from what it was like nine years ago and looking at the trife I used to post on there, what on earth was I doing. I look how I used Facebook now and how it’s completely evolved. I look my parents are using Facebook sort of a similar way to how I used to use it and they’re using it the way I am using it now. They use it in both methods. So the digital world and this whole millennial term, I’m starting to think more and more after talking. This is just completely irrelevant and it’s a pointless buzzword that marketers use to other marketers to make them sound like they know what they are talking about.

Ash:
Millennial marketing is just marketing that’s literally all it is. It’s marketing to a specific age demographic. So for someone to say hey we specifically market to people who are within this fifteen year age gap that’s cool. But it’s a little, it’s a lot cliche to call it in the millennial marketing, if you say, I only market to people there and I’m going to do some maths on the spot here. But I only markets people that are between at the top end, 38, at the bottom end ,23. Or who are 20 to 40, let’s say so if you give a bit leeway on either end. So I only mark it as an agency to people in the ages of 20 and 40, that’s so vague. If you want to be a decent marketing agency, you are going to have to be a little bit more specific. You can use that as your internal core value and say these are the people that we want to engage with. Because we understand them the most but I wouldn’t hire an agency that tells me they market to people specifically within a twenty year age gap because that means absolutely nothing to me. It’s absolutely crazy, I mean where the power comes from is to go into the next level or the next few levels after that. So the agency around was a social agency. OK everybody in our agency was under the age of thirty when I was working there, six or seven of us so. That meant every picture would turn up to look fairly young, baby-faced we are pitching social media services. So I didn’t have to market ourselves as a millennial agency and then after tell anybody about our age because they can see that they’ve got eyes. They  understand they knew that there was a correlation between the ages of what they assumed we were and the fact that we were on a social agency. We reported during this so we probably knew more about it than they did it. So we didn’t have to put that out there specifically because we relied on our results rather than just our token the use of the buzzword millennial. Then we would niche even more into leisure hospitality because we knew what people wanted when they were using social to book hotels and book trips. And book days out  and book food and drink and we knew more about advertising, so we would do specifically campaigns community management and advertising for the leisure hospitality industry, using social first or social only depending on the campaign. That was it, we would never talk about the age demographic unless the client wanted us to specifically target a specific age demographic .It would be usually much more narrow than that millennial gap. If we’re looking at a twenty year gap, if somebody comes to me and says tells me about their idea and I say great What’s the target market of your product or your service. And they say oh well we’re going to target everybody between the ages of ten and thirty, I’m going to go that’s not specific enough for you to build a product or a campaign. There are so many differences between the people in that age group, that’s not powerful enough the thing. You’re going to put out there for the people at thirty. This is the people that are going to the campaigns are going to be there for, the people at fifty would differentiate so much. They’re going to miss the mark for both of them. The best example I’ve got for this right now I would say is Barclays. So Barclays ran a campaign, I’m sure lots of people have seen it called Digital Eagles recently, it’s been all over the T.V. In my opinion it completely misses the mark, they’ve tried to hit not only the millennial market, they tried to hit lot’s of different age ranges with the same campaign. What they’ve done is, they’ve marketed the fact that your bank manager can help you with your online management and your social media knowledge. So first of all if I need help with my social media knowledge of my web knowledge, not going to my bank manager. That’s absolute nonsense. So me being a quote-unquote millennial. Oh that’s crazy because I look at my managers and I go wow. you kind of screwed up. Most of you ran a company that was or an organisation, that’s now nationalised so I don’t really trust you for anything. So that’s generation that I grew up in. Then the other demographic they are targeting is the elderly now. Depending on what age range you want to put that in and I would say that they’re probably with the services they’re targeting between maybe 65-75. And the reality is that they don’t really care in my opinion. You know they don’t necessarily want to be using apps to find walking football, I think was one of the campaigns. I mean I might be missing the mark and I might be generalizing or might be getting confused. But I would bet my house that most people wouldn’t use online services at age for that reason and so they try to hit all bases with one campaign and missed it in all ways. Because they haven’t been specific enough, they do not understand enough about my age group. To go what do they really think of banks. This is what they think. What do they really want from banks. OK this is what they want and how do we deliver that in a compelling way, that’s profound and they care about it and they will buy into and how do we reach them. Instead of just going they’re millennials, they use online so let’s do some online stuff for them because that’s a nothing for me. As a result, I’ve not changed my banking to Barclays. And so that’s what I miss the mark and in the same conversation, you’ve got digital banks coming out to understand far more about it they don’t market themselves as a Millennial bank Barclays don’t. But you see what I mean, they just go on and understood that by default most people who are starting to open bank accounts right now are already in line, with online best practices. They know how to use a phone, they know use the browser on their computer, if they even have one, they might just have a tablet and a phone now and so they’ve gone great. Let’s create an app first for mobile banking and create an experience because that’s what this demographic we are appealing to probably wants more. They try to understand more and more and more and as a result we’ve seen the rise of companies like Monsanto, Atom, Starling bank and Loot. That’s because they truly understand, what this generation and more specifically this specific demographics really wants from them. The reality is that the people who use the word millennial marketing are probably the people who don’t get enough and the people who get enough probably won’t ever use the words millennial marketing.

Ben:
So you are talking about Barclays and I thought might my smartphone Zouma know you, as I am a millennial. Then I touch the Typepad as I do. And the website I brought up was Monzo and I are hoping you will bring up an example that I most associate with it. You open to their website for example and it’s completely smartphone friendly. The words are literally “Bank of the future”, “Built for your smartphone”. And it’s that really engaging stuff. You can see it’s designed for a market. Now the question is, is that design for Millennials? Now I think from this conversation we could safely say that millennial marketing isn’t really a thing. But it’s obviously going to be targeted to that someone that Monzo bank it’s going to be targeted. If we’re not targeting millennials, how do you actually narrow it down and how if you can’t use a generic term like millennial as your personas? How do you know who create those personas? How do you actually sort of cut it down to actually be able to make audience? It’s big enough because you see millennials too big we obviously don’t you. Also, don’t want to cut it down too much. Niches are fine but if you want a large demographic. How do you actually just narrowing down somewhere in between?

Ash:
Well I think this is where. When my point around being a good marketer comes to you need to know, where the line is. If you don’t know where that line is then people don’t deserve to be using it buzzwords like millennial marketing. So for me, I would go to a couple of levels of narrowing. I suppose you’re right it does depend because if you need one customer to pay you a million pounds, rather than a million customers to pay you one pound. Then narrowing the audience to the perfect person actually makes sense. So if your perfect ideal customer persona so we work on customer personas. And it’s is something I’ve learned very well from a mentor of mine Mike Wilshaw. He runs the executive foundation and south-west of the U.K.  He is a genius. He likes to visually picture his custody so he runs a membership organization that is in all fairness is a premium level. So it specifically directors a C.E.O.’s of growing companies, you really want to invest in their growth so he knows the type of person that he wants to attract. They’re going to have a certain amount of turnover. They’re going to have a certain amount of staff. They’re going to have a certain vision. And actually he gets to the nth degree and starts to think about. Do they have children?. What car do they drive? What are their hobbies? What they do on the weekend. He’s doing a manual version, of what I would generally look to do digitally, if I’m doing something like a Facebook ad. Is he knows exactly your persona because he needs you to pay premium that’s, let’s say it’s say is, £1000 a month. If he can narrow that big, big, big audience of millennial. Let’s say down to one person and have a conversation that can initiate very very easily then he has made his job much easier by narrowing it now. Now Yena is a great example of the other end of the scales. So you could argue that our audience is millennial, you know we, our primary demographic is around 35. For the membership we don’t actually have an age limit. It’s defined by our marketing so we will use certain wording and certain phraseology, in certain messaging to attract the right type of demographic that we want to align our planned with. So exactly as you said with Monzo so we won’t use the word Millenial. And as you picked up at the start of the call generally use words like rebellious minds. And on entrepreneurial individuals so what we’re doing is we’re creating a picture that someone can then put themselves within, am I young enough to resonate with this brand. Well if they don’t resonate with it, they probably won’t go any further and if they do they’re in. They may look at the phraseology in the messaging leaves on a website. So am I a “Rebellious Mind”? Do I think differently? Am I can contrarians? Do I want to change the status quo? Am I working in a job that bores me at the moment or do I enjoy the job? I want to make it’s a director level while everybody else is sat having lunch. Do I want to run the business? Am I a freelance? I’m just doing something slightly different and if they are then they probably self-qualify and so my company probably has already done the job. Then when it comes down to things like advertising, we can then market that even more in a even more narrow way. So we would do Facebook ads for example within a certain specific postcode. Usually relative to where we run our events who are in eleven cities across the U.K. now and we’re usually running within a certain radius of those cities. That just so that we can make sure we can engage with the event some top of everything else that we do and we can possibly meet them. We will target people that are in lookalike audience of the current audience built so people that already will then. Classify themselves as young and interesting and contrarians and rebellious and start businesses and become entrepreneurial. Then we will narrow even more to people that might engage with the likes of Gary Vaynerchuk on Facebook or they might watch Dragons’ Den or they might be or members of other similar organizations or they might be founders and so on and so on. What we do is we come up with an audience that is surprisingly large because there are over half a million businesses formed every year. And so number of those even though this might sound like much much smaller figure, let’s say ten thousand might fit within that demographic I just outlined Then I put some of our marketing budget behind that and I’m reaching ten thousand people within a very specific demographic. Who may by default fall into a millennial age group but they are the exact type of people that think that way we do, that want the products, we build they want to engage with the community, that we have and will be happy because they find the right things for them. Because we put the legwork and to help them find us if I just sent Yena out see anyone else in the millennial demographic. There’s a reason that most of my school friends don’t go to Yena and that’s because most of them not the right customer for Yena. I’ll go to the pub with all the guys I know from school, football and college, way back when. and we won’t even talk about work. Because they don’t understand what Yena is yet, we’ve got two and a half million people a year coming to the events that we run. Because they exactly get it. Both groups of them are millennial but there are defined by their own circumstances trust and that’s the point

Ben:
I think that’s a beautiful way view when a beautiful little synopsis of an on Millennial Marketing. So everyone thank you for coming in and talking about. We’ve discussed it before and we’ve mentioned about some of these buzzwords when I pitched the idea to you.It was great how you say that you want to get involved. Beyond millennial marketing, what buzzwords do you actually like? I think that we’ve established that millennial marketing isn’t one so what’s one of your favorite marketing buzzwords out there.

Ash:
OK So if we’re thinking about something similar to this one. Something I’m using at the moment a lot and I think is always relevant, is about whether things are quote-unquote on trend. That might seem a little buzzwordy but it’s more relevant because it’s about what’s interesting right now. Not about what’s been interesting for the last twenty years or to an age demographic that is 20 years. What do people care about right now and so that’s something that’s of interest to me. Falling within things that are on trend, personal brand is something that’s going to take a lot of interest at the moment and rightly so. There’s this recognition and realisation that people have their own brands. You can get a little bit too in-depth with this and start to sound a bit like a coach, of which there are ten a penny in U.K. Now it seems as people understand that their businesses or their careers are actually not removed from who they are. As people, we’re not cogs in machines anymore, especially with the rise of remote working. It’s all about what makes you individuals and of course the rise in the number of people, there are qualifying through university. There are so many of us getting degrees now,  actually, the degree doesn’t separate you out enough to be able to get that job. What’s the personal brand that you’ve built around yourself to make it so that you are in demand. So on trend and personal brand, I think those are two things that are pretty high on my agenda at the moment. Certainly, personal brand to learn more and more about. Yeah, I think.

Ben:
It’s interesting in personal branding so you know I’ve sort of. So it’s something that’s resonating with me a little bit at the moment. So it’s interesting to see, you know a being in that same millennial age group, we’re looking at the same thing. Maybe that millennial thinking isn’t so bad?

Ash:
Well, actually I was going to think. Rather than an age group is actually is more narrow than that. Personal branding is something up again quite. Some are friends of the party and they won’t care and they won’t really know what it is. Yes, we are both millennials and so there’s an assumption that all millennials must care about personal brand. Yes but also incorrect, millennials care about personal brands. But it’s millennial that care about is this career progression or personal development. And themselves and where they’re going on a journey that will care about personal brand and so that narrows it down to what could be. A billion people or two billion people down to something that might be more like ten percent of one hundred million or two hundred million people. Which is still a big number but much more narrow much more niche and allows you to create more. Find quite annoying buzzword but a total addressable market for a business and then your job is to go out win a percentage that

Ben:
Exactly. Is there another buzzword that might make you go right, hell no I never want to hear that again. What is one of the one or two buzzwords that drive you nuts at the moment? If you could call them off the planet and you’d never hear them again.

Ash:
Interesting. There are so many that are banging around the office and it’s one of those situations where you catch me off guard and I’m trying to remember them. One of them it just bugs me and I get why it’s a classic. I’ll explain why it bugs me is the unicorn. Which for those of people who don’t know describes a startup that has grown into a valuation or often raised enough money to achieve an on paper valuation of over a billion dollars. So that is a large amount of money. And seems quite impressive So what it’s doing is, it’s glamorizing a, I think is annoying with especially relating to this interview, generation of startups and business owners. That is on growing up hearing this word and thinking that that is the aim and forgetting about something that is very important which is a sustainable business.It’s all and good trying to grow a billion dollar company but let’s start with the basics first. If you’re not generating a profit or you’re not selling something for more than it costs to develop it and deliver it. Then the arguably, you’re not necessarily running a business, you’re running a project or an expensive research project or something. That somebody is happily funding as a philanthropist rather than as an investor. I’m quite controversial on that topic but yeah so lots of buzzwords around fundraising and I think a unicorn just one of many but that does bug me. And there are so many other and so many others. But yeah I’m going to stick with that one for now but I’m more than happy to note some note some and come back and do a big follow up and almost like a Room 101 of buzzwords

Ben:
This is essentially what I want to do. Create with the wall behind me, with this A1 bit of paper. And if those you have watched Top gear and a cool wall. With hot buzzwords and move them across, knock some off and move them around. That’s the dream going forward.

Ash:
Love that I absolutely love that. So yeah, I will supply you with an obscene number. Mostly for the uncool wall, I’m not cool enough for the cool wall. We need to get there we just have to get Jeremy Clarkson or one of the less controversial hosts involved at some point. See if we can get that brand reach. Yeah, sounds great and it’s been really cool talking about it. I hope, I haven’t been too aggressive but thanks for having me on.

Ben:
No problem at all, thanks, Ash.

Ash:
Cheer Ben Thank you.

Ben:
I really, really hope that you enjoyed the episode as much as me as you can tell millennial marketing is one of those buzzwords it can a bugbear for me and I can see how it why it’s used to sort of see if you got from the interview how much actually I don’t like the term now I’m up I’m open to suggestions on this some of you may love it some of you may hate it. I think it is interesting to hear your views or please do share them with me using #marketingbuzzword. Would please do subscribe to the show as well if you did enjoy it and leave a rating slash review preferably both on iTunes. It was an absolute pleasure to have Ash on today and I’m really excited again to share next week’s episode with you which is all about communities and creating communities. Another term that’s thrown around so much in our next week’s interviewees is a really good one for clarifying exactly what a community is who needs it and why they need it. Hey ‘ until next week, goodbye.

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