Marketing Buzzword - Humanising Marketing - Bryan Kramer

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Hello again and welcome back to the Marketing Buzzword Podcast!

This is the podcast which helps you to understand what all of these business and marketing buzzwords actually mean, and how they can helpful going forward, and today’s buzzword is “Humanising Marketing”

I’m your host Ben M Roberts and in this show I am the marketing bee in charge making sure I can get the right guests and ask the right questions to make these words and phrases make sense.

In addition, The Marketing Buzzword Podcast is now powered by Talkative. Talkative is a company that brings live chat, voice calls, video calls and co-browsing together, in one package. This allows you and your business to truly engage with your customers, offer quick and effective resolutions to questions and improve the customer experience. You can find out more at Talkative.uk

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So, how does this show work?

Simply, you, the marketing bees let me know what buzzwords you’ve been hearing, and bring them into the marketing beehive. I then bring on an expert buzzword bee from the field, who helps us identify what these buzzwords actually mean, and whether they are useful or not. Essentially, I want to de-bunk or de-mystify these words and phrases to make the marketing jargon a little easier to understand.

I’m always keen to hear about the buzzwords you are loving or hating right now so please drop me a tweet to @roberts_ben_m or simply use #marketingbuzzword on Twitter & Instagram or if you’d rather you can go on the marketingbuzzword.com website and let me know through there, and take a look at the show notes from previous guests.

Then one final thing before we get onto this weeks guest . . . if you are loving the show, please feel free to leave me a review on iTunes! It really does help boost the shows profile and make it easier to keep getting on these expert guests.

Right that’s more than enough about me. It’s time to introduce this weeks guest! This episode’s expert buzzword bee is the super knowledgeable Bryan Kramer.

Bryan Kramer is a renowned social business strategist, global keynote speaker, executive coach, and bestselling author. He’s one of the world’s foremost leaders in the art and science of sharing, and has been credited with instigating the #H2H human business movement in marketing and social.

With more than 350,000 social fans and followers, and an intimate understanding of the intricacies and interworking of both social technologies and social behaviors, Bryan is both a practitioner and authority on the subject.

Human to Human: H2H - Bryan Kramer - Marketing Buzzword Podcast

Bryan’s first book There is No B2B or B2C: It’s Human to Human #H2H rose to the #1 top selling spot in Business Books on Amazon in its first week. In January 2015, #H2H was named as the number one buzzword for 2015 by The Writer.

His latest book, Shareology: How Sharing is Powering the Human Economy, published by Morgan James Publishing, made the USA Today’s Top 150 Book List the week of its release, as well as #1 on Amazon in four categories including Business & Planning. The book explores the history, art and science of sharing, and illustrates why sharing is what gives us a unique competitive advantage as individuals and brands.

A founding leader in the Human Business Movement, Bryan speaks all over the world to marketing and social audiences on the topic.

Bryan is excited to have been included on the following lists:
• The 43rd most talked about marketer by global senior marketers – LeadTail
• #26 Global Top CEO Influencer on Social Media – Kred
• Top 50 Social CEOs on Twitter Globally – Huffington Post
• Top 25 Influencer to Follow – Forbes
• The 100 Most Influential Tech People On Twitter – Business Insider

Enough small talk . . . let’s talk “Humanising Marketing”

Humanising Marketing Transcript between Ben M Roberts and Bryan Kramer

Ben:

Hi Bryan andi welcome to the podcast.

Bryan:

Hey, thanks for having me.

Ben:

Hey, it’s an absolute pleasure. I am so glad to get you on today because there is no one better, I could think of, to talk about humanization. Absolutely no one. So, I’m absolutely grateful that you would come on to talk about it.

Bryan:

Ah, thank you so much I appreciate that.

Ben:

So obviously, I’ve given a little spiel about who you are and what you do. But the real question I’m going to hit you with a left hook-right away Bryan. And I’m going to say we’re in a digital age now, where ai is becoming more and more prevalent, is there a place for humans anymore? Is humanization actually still thing? All we going to be resigned to a world of talking to machines?

Bryan:

Yeah, it’s going to. So, here’s the thing it’s going to be a perfect balance. Or it needs to be. The machines will never take over, but humans have to get even better at using technology. Artificial intelligence is coming even machine learning is here. There are all kinds of things AR, VR, automated bots, the list goes on. So, the more that we use these things, the more you need to understand. To everyone who’s listening, is that that it’s not about versus, it’s not. It’s not, humans versus machines. It’s humans and machines working together. And what at the end of the day you really want is more time. Who doesn’t want more time? So, the more time that you have, the more you can actually do what matters. And that’s build relationships. Robots can’t build relationships like humans can. So, if artificial intelligence and all these great things that are coming. Can help to get more relationships. Then, I think we’re winning. So, I’m not afraid of it, I’m actually excited about it.

Ben:

Hmm that’s a weird thing isn’t it. Because I guess from so many films, crossing back decades, it’s always shown us man versus machine. And even in sort of Hollywood blockbusters, where there’s a machine that helps humans. It’s always man versus machine, man versus machine. And even in marketing, a development of ai and ar. It’s almost a bit like, oh look this is chatbot. It’s going to take over. Its going to take your jobs. All these automated driving machines, means that nobody able to drive any more services thousands and thousands of lost employments. It’s interesting to see actually how, from the flip side, actually there are certain things that will never ever go. From jobs, you can’t replicate with a machine.

Bryan:

Yeah, that’s so you’re talking about the things that you can’t replicate with a machine, right?

Ben:

Yeah.

Bryan:

And so, what makes us human. And there’s a huge difference, there is a big thing that makes everything different and that’s that that humans can share experiences. Robots can’t. We’re input, sorry we’re output, and machines are input only. And so, what’s going to happen is as we start to build these things have the intelligence. To bring us the data or the information or the connections that we need. Then we’re going to have the ability to then build a relationship and share in the moment again. A machine can’t do that. A machine can’t be at Disneyland laughing and enjoying yourself. And then maybe something even funnier happens in that moment. And the family is doing something, and you just want to share that moment out. That’s not anything a machine can do. There are certain levels of emotions. You can build into our artificial intelligence. But the one thing they can’t do is they can’t share a unique experience in the moment. And quite frankly, that’s what makes us all human is. And that’s what makes us attracted to each other and build relationships. Is that, you want to do work with people you want to do business with. People that you enjoy and that you have fun with and that you connect with. And a robot can’t do that for you. That’s up to you. What the machines are there to do is to build potentially the right people and put them in to the same place so that they can then build a relationship. Because not everybody is meant to you know. There’s no reason that I should be talking to somebody who has nothing to do with anything that I do. When I only have eight hours or twelve hours in my day. Or maybe you have more hours. So, we need to find more or less than needles in the haystack, for the people around the world that we might want to do business with. And then build that relationship from there. That’s where machines and humans are working together, and we’ll continue to refine better there’s tools that help you do that hands down right now. But it’s a little more manual than it eventually will be but there are tools out there that can help you do that.

Ben:

I think it’s almost, the best marketing examples. I can think of at the moment, is the development of the two types of chatbot into almost like a live chat scenario. Where you’ve got almost like the live chat, where it’s completely human driven. Everything is on a more emotional relationship level, where you’re able to communicate thoughts and feelings and react instantly with a real human response. And then you’ve got almost like the learning chatbots as well. Where you are putting your inputs in the chatbot understands and it can say empathetic things. But it doesn’t have that quite that emotional intelligence yet. Where once someone makes a joke, you can keep laughing where you laugh and you uncontrollably laughing, and you have absolutely no idea why. And then you go to the other end of the chat box, where it’s almost like question, answer, question, answer. Each one of those has their own place but though it one cannot replace the other almost. It’s once you have almost like a holistic approach to sort of chatters. An example of it works much better.

Bryan:

Absolutely. I totally agree. Now, what I’m curious what’s your relationship with? What have you explored with in this area? What do you see?

Ben:

So, I think from my point of view. Looking at and going there’s a huge development in the moment of chatbots. And the problem I have not necessarily with chatbots, but in the way that they’re sometimes perceived. Is that how one sort of question type for example using chatbots. This example, because the one I’m probably most familiar with. Where chatbots, one version you’ve got is completely chat bot led. So, you message chat bot says, “I want you to do this” and you pick one of four buttons. Then it goes “great”. Okay, you’ve ticked that we have another four buttons and that helps you to get to either get you an answer or get you to a person. And then you got the flip side then where it’s a learning chat. That great to a good point but they have so many limitations. Where they try to be human but they almost so far behind. So, from that point of view, I almost like the one where it’s completely chatbot. Where it’s almost full disclosure, that it’s a chatbot. And then this live chat element where, it’s actually a human to a human it’s pure relationship. Yes, the mistakes happen. Yes, things aren’t always perfect. But you know someone at the other end of the line somewhere is going to be empathetic to your situation. And this is where the line in between it seems to be really blurry from my eyes at the moment.

Bryan:

Yeah, so here’s the thing. I always recommend that when you’re using a chatbot. The chat bots are not artificial intelligence, they’re not machine learning, yet. They may be but they’re not yet. And so, there are some that are machine learning and they can respond to different emotions, different words that create a different emotion. And you can start to build it, in some logic for that. But I really don’t think that we should try to make the bots human. For instance, my bots, if you were to go to my Facebook page and give it a spin. Which if you wanted to go try it out, you’ll see exactly how I did not humanise my chat bot. And, I used humour in a way of actually saying, you know this is Bryan’s chat bot Harold the chatbot. And i’m not artificially intelligent, in fact, I do my best to help you. But at the end of the day if you really want to talk to a real human, let me know I can connect you directly with Bryan. And the way, right up front I’m acknowledging or Harold is acknowledging that this is a bot. I’m not super intelligent and I’m going to do my best to give you a great experience. And there really is a human here you can talk to them all you have to say is “chat with human”. I think that is the best way I’ve found and whether you call your bot by a name or you do something funny like that. You should call it out as a bot. And I’ve installed so many of them. And when I try to make it look like it’s human, that’s a failure every time. So, I think you should just call it what it is it’s a bot. And when the bot comes up, it says it’s a bot and then you’re not creating bait-and-switch with the user. You’re saying I can help you in these ways, but a human can help you in these ways. You have your options, what do you want to do? So, I think that that’s the best way to do approach stuff is just don’t try to fake people out. They’ll get it right away, people are smart. Just say it. Say what it is and get that get that out there. Again, if you wanted to go test out my bot, I have a really cool sequence of videos. And that I made and all kinds of stuff trying to show how this could work. And so, if you want to go to like facebook.com/therealbryankramer then you can test my bot out. I’d love to hear back from you, just hit chat from chat with the human. And I’ll pop up within a few hours and I’m really the person chatting with you.

Ben:

Well, I absolutely love that it’s refreshing to hear and almost that element of. Because I know I’ve used these chatbots, before people started calling them learning chatbots or whatever they want to call them these days. Where it’s, you think that you’re having a conversation. And it’s almost present itself as human but then you ask it a question. That’s maybe not in its designated parameters and it can’t put the thing together. Then it comes up with a completely random answer, that just makes no sense. And then you’re almost more frustrated because they haven’t been upfront with you straight away. That this is either a chatbot and it’s quite clearly or it’s a human. You left thinking it’s one thing it turns out to be another and that’s highly frustrating. In it for me, that’s a valuable the customer experience. And it’s just highly frustrating, you don’t want to do business with companies. That almost try to be something that, they’re not. Or try and deliver something that they haven’t actually delivered properly.

Bryan:

Yeah and you know my answer, it’s still kind of kind of the same thing that I was saying. Is that you know, everyone always looks at all of these tools in there. They’re trying to make it too complex, they’re trying to maybe even automate too much. With whether it’s bots or even email systems. And I think part of the problem, is that you know we see this and we get kind of shiny pennies or add around, what we could potentially do with this. And then we make it too complex and then it doesn’t work. And then you say well it failed it didn’t work. And there are people out there, including myself, it took some time to get it to work. But I had to discover that for myself and that you have to really start simple. Don’t try to conquer the world, set up something very simple. Just you know approach it in a very, just implement two or three steps in it. Versus like ten steps and trying to convert and try to automate, link to a landing page and trying to send them to a video. Like don’t try to do all that, just if this is for a person or a business, I’d say the same thing you got to make it really simple. Test it, try it, add one more thing, test it, try it, add one more thing and just iterate the whole time. Rather than trying to, really build out something quite expensive. Unless you’re Nike or you’re reebok or you’re Microsoft or you’re a big brand with billions of dollars. My answer changes when it’s one of those. But most people, I would imagine, who are listening if you’re not a company like that. Then that’s what I would do.

Ben:

Yeah, I really agree there. And it’s almost taking it as it should be to your level of business. And the amount of time, you’re willing to put willing and able and resource you’re willing and able to put in. Should be. What you try and get out of it because if you try and put too much into. And you try and express too much it, you almost seem it’s the backfire. It’s almost playing the game at your own level, once you get bigger again. You can invest more time and resource. And the quality comes from there. It’s like trying not run before you can walk

Bryan:

Yeah, totally you really and that goes for everything, right. In life, just start simple and iterate.

Ben:

And then one of the things, they’re not sort of my brain was going on, then it’s almost like a complete different area of humanization. So that’s almost one area of marketing we’ve just talked about. Where humanization is potentially, some people would argue, that humanization is that threat. Or for whatever term you want to use. Now there’s another aspect of it, where marketing and business in general. Is telling people to be much more human and in that element it’s live video. So, it’s a case of people going, “look you need to be live more”. “you need to create more personality”. “you need to show these behind the scenes things”. Now I’m going to argue with you here, Bryan. Maybe or maybe we’ll agree. I don’t know yet. What is the point in doing all these things ultimately, if they don’t boot us the bottom line? Now you do all this behind the scenes, that you can show your human but ultimately for certain types of businesses and certain types of people. Is that all in vain? Is being human, great all the time? And is investing in all its live stuff, to trying to show personality, is that always a wise investment?

Bryan:

Always a wise investment. You know, I wish I could do something visually for you. But meeting upon audio podcast, I’ll ask everybody to think about Disney. That’s sometimes an overuse example but in this case, it’s the best way I can actually answer that question. Back in the 1950s, when Walt Disney built everything at the Disney company. Meaning the resorts, the amusement parks, the studios, the hall of the movie industry. Every aspect of what he did, he actually planned it all out. But he went one step further. And this is what I think everybody always points to about Disney. Is that he actually not only mapped out how the infrastructure would work for all this. But he actually mapped out how the human experience would work on top of it. And so, he has this map, which you can google Disney customer experience, and it basically overlays on top of the entire infrastructure and shows you why Disney as it is today became what it is. Because he said it from the get-go. Saying that when you when you treat your customer or your potential customer, in all of these human touch points in a certain way. Your results are going to be off the charts. And they are. I could point to all the little things that Disney does that, everybody is always already aware of. And if you haven’t been to an any kind of Disney experience then you need to go to see it. Which I would imagine most people have. So, when you go into a Disney park or you watch a Disney movie, or you do something it has that magical customer experience. And those are all mapped out those are human touch points that he knows matters like when he has their staff at a Disney park when they are off hours, there’s actually tunnels underneath the park. Where they leave and exit the park, so you never see all of the people that work there traveling across the park. That’s why you only see…

Ben:

What a knowledge bomb. I absolutely had no idea.

Bryan:

Yeah, that’s why you see within every five minutes. You see somebody cleaning their area, that they’re in charge of across the entire park. And you rarely see trash anywhere because they want the user experience to be the cleanest parks you’ve ever been to. And they are. That’s why when you go to the lines when you go to any other park and wait in line, we’re always comparing it to the Disney line experience. Because they’ve just they’ve made their technology better, they have brought out apps and technology. So, you can actually see what the line length is before you actually go there or do the fast pass. To make sure you hit the three rides and you don’t leave that day feeling disappointed from not doing the things you really want to do. So, I mean I could go on the list, it’s massively long, for what they do. But a lot of this stuff started with the human touch points with the human experience for what he laid out there and now it’s becoming more and more important. Because we’re not just in the mad men days. Of just radio, tv and newspapers. I mean there are thousands of marketing channels and experiences that people can have. You know in email and online and so on and so forth. So, these kinds of things need to be mapped out, so that you feel like you’re not just another number. If there’s no human personalized touch point for someone. They’re not connected to the brand in some way, aside from the vision and mission and so on and so forth. They’re not going to last as a customer.

Ben:

I think that was probably an incredibly poignant point. There is that, it’s making sure that each customer isn’t just seen as another number. And that’s something that can resonate across industries and resonate across business sizes of all types. Because I know most people to go “oh that’s only good for big business” or “that’s only good for small business. But actually, look between each person like an individual. For example, I’m up based and whether it’s the n’s probably the largest or second largest employer in the up or whether you’re a one or two-man band. How you treat your customers, the people coming in and out. And using your services is so important because without those customers, without that positive feeling, that positive experience that positive touchpoint, all those touchpoints with the brand. They’re not going to come back again. And ultimately if they don’t come back again. You know what funny enough you haven’t got a business anymore.

Bryan:

Exactly I couldn’t put a name better. That’s exactly the point.

Ben:

Yeah, so how do then business, in terms of digital businesses. Now so businesses that operate almost purely exclusively online, how would a small medium-sized business which is reasonably short staffed in terms of manpower, how do they remain human? How do they try and increase the number of human elements in their brand? How would they do that?

Bryan:

You know, it’s you can keep it as simple. Like I said don’t try to take on in the world all at once. But the best way to do it is walk over to a whiteboard. If you don’t already have everything mapped out that you’re doing in marketing and put it all up there on the whiteboard. Then start looking at it and saying well where can I make some unexpected valuable experiences? And start inserting them there and then start saying well what could I do that would make that invaluable? You know I’ll tell you a quick story about when I was a pizza delivery driver in college. I worked for dominos, I was trying to get tips like every other pizza delivery driver. I realize that college students did not have money, they are broke. And I was never going to be able to make the tips that I thought I was going to make. And so, I started to think about what I could do that would might provide more value. That would get me more than a dollar tip that I was getting or sometimes even none. So, I started to think about what most college students go through and that’s that they only order the bare minimum. They ordered just a pizza, but the ironic part is most of them. I don’t know if this is appropriate for the podcast, but I’ll say it anyway. You know a lot of them are either drinking alcohol or they’re even smoking or smoking marijuana. And so, every single person has this need, whether it’s one of those or they’re just generally thirsty they are thirsty. And yet they don’t order any drinks and so they end up not having it. So, I was at I think it was Safeway, one day and I saw a pallet of two litters of diet coke. And coke this is at the time I was going to school, so it was fifty cents for two so a quarter apiece for a two litter. Which is so cheap compared to you know, that’s so easy for me to just buy it and try it. So, I did, I put it in the back of my Chevy blazer. And with a medium or larger pizza, I delivered a free two litter. I told the guy, this is for you or lady and they would say “well how much is?” “that I didn’t order it”. And I’d say, “no, it’s just a free gift, I just know that generally, you’re thirsty. This is how I’m going to help you out”. And they would reach another pocket, almost every time, and give me like five dollars and ten dollars which was way more than a quarter, right. And so, all of a sudden, I’m delivering these great experiences of unexpected value. Delivering exactly what they need in the moment and they didn’t even know it. And so that’s the kind of stuff that you want to deliver in your own human touchpoints. How can you go beyond what they’re expecting? And have a Disney experience, where you’re like wow they really care about me. They really thought about this, they know my name, they really. You know they sent me a unique personalized video saying, we’re so happy to have you as a customer, my name’s Bryan how can I help you, john. And it’s for john and you’re like wow. That’s unbelievable. They really care about every single customer. That’s the kind of stuff. That’s going to help you win.

Ben:

I think wouldn’t, there are so many points in there I almost want to expand on. And I think the last point was almost potentially, the best one. It’s almost simply, even adding a name, on to things suddenly changes the whole complexion of a transaction. And how are you dealing with someone. It’s like, “hi I’m ben, nice to meet you. What’s your name” or “hi Bryan, thank you so much for coming on the podcast”. But using a name_ it’s like “oh my god it’s personal, they know me they appreciate me being here”. And suddenly, it’s the whole conversation is completely different. To just going, “alright, do you want to come on the podcast”. It just doesn’t have the same ring to it.

Bryan:

Yeah, well you have to be careful. Because in the automation, it can seem like that all they did was just insert a tag to have your name pulled up. So, I’m actually suggesting that you go beyond that.

Ben:

Yes.

Bryan:

Yeah, so you know you make the personalization so unique. That it stands out. That it shows, that you actually went above and beyond. But yes, I totally agree with you.

Ben:

What you say, again leads me to the other point I wrote down it’s almost like that when you provide this experience. People almost seem to see it as almost like a cost centre. Where you’re investing in all these extra touchpoints. You’re investing in extra things to surprise and delight the customer. In order to take it to another level. But actually, people sometimes forget, actually people almost willing to pay slightly more for these experiences. Use Disney as an example, Disney is not the cheapest theme parks around. But you’re willing to pay because that experienced is so incredible. It’s so personalized it’s so on point that you’ll pay more for it. You put, generally people, we seem to pay more for better experiences after all. I think if you listen to it, the experience this podcast with Jerry Coleman and Dan gingiss. They always talk about how experiences make really make the difference. Now that’s how people almost judge companies these days. Because anyone can compete on price these days. You can go and spend ages trying to complete on minuscule of price. But experiences, that’s so difficult to be able to compete on. And it’s completely unique to you and your business.

Bryan:

Just, you said it so well. And joey and Dan are both good friends of mine, as well as yours, I know. So, I completely agree with them, with you. The idea behind the value of what you’re offering, and the price being equated to that value because of the experience. That you’re delivering because they’ll come to know. And you, for it, will drive a higher value or a higher ticket. But where most people get caught up, isn’t in the idea of understanding that it’s in the upfront experience, and how to deliver it. You have to believe in the process of delivering it, is going to have that kind of outcome that you’re talking about. So, it sounds so easy, it actually takes a while and it takes some proper thinking and planning to do. That’s part of what I work with teams and company are doing. Is really making sure that human experience is injected in the right place? Because it’s not, that you just offer a two-liter Pepsi, as much as I dumbed it down to that. One thing there’s obviously way more channels now. Every company is totally different, their culture is different, it takes time to train people to think this way. And to have the freedom to do certain things. Like not every company is allowed to do certain things. And so, you have to figure out what’s allowed? What isn’t? And where can you live? And what can you do? And what does that process look like? And then how do you build a game plan or a playbook for this right. And then how do you inset that into your digital experience. So, there are some ways, that you can do it immediately. Like I said go whiteboard it and insert it into certain places and boom. Try that out. And go simple or go home. But then when you are ready for the next level, that really and you will be. If you do it, that we’re talking about that. Then you really need to dive into really investing in that process. If you want to deliver something at that Disney level.

Ben:

Yeah. And I can’t add more. It comes back to what we were talking about earlier. In the podcasts, it’s that step by step approach. It’s the baby steps, get one thing nail. Almost put that buy-in from the top down as well. Because if you’re one small cog in a massive engine. You’re realistically, you’re not going to be able to inject this sort of level of change. But you can get that level that buy-in from the top down and get that investment in it. It becomes a completely different animal, otherwise, if you’re almost fighting a losing battle against a corporation. If you haven’t got a little buy-in from the other people, within the organization. Because one or two people trying to be human in an organization. Doesn’t work you need the collective to work together. That is what makes an almost that is humanization itself.

Bryan:

That’s right. Yeah, I’m preaching the choir. You get it.

Ben:

Perfect, so one of the final things I really want to chat with you about. Then is sort of your book. And honestly, I’m a huge fan of both your books. I want to make sure that everyone who’s listening, either gets a copy, read a copy, downloads a copy. Can you talk me through sort of the premise of “shareology” and h2h? And also about sort of your h2h chat as well.

Bryan:

Yeah, so no problem. So my first book pages “there is no b2b or b2c: it’s human to human: h2h”. I brought that out four years ago but it’s actually the book is still actually selling well.

Ben:

4 years ago!

Bryan:

Oh yeah, I think, it’s more relevant now than ever. Because of everything that’s happening with all the machine learning. When I wrote it was really more about the social media era. But it’s now it’s actually more relevant now, with bots and AI and all that kind of stuff. So, it’s actually doing very well on amazon. And I get, I also speak a lot around the world. And usually, it’s between one of those two topics of either “h2h” or my second book which is “shareology” and “shareology”. Actually, did very well as well it outsold “h2h”. And I think it sold 30,000 books. And that is also how sharing powers the human economy and it’s sharing not just on social media but sharing and building connections. So, it’s like the evolution of h2h and so that that really escalates everything that we just talked about driving human touch points and so on and so forth. How do you do that, so that’s also up on amazon. And then actually h2h chat is dormant right now because we’re reconfiguring the whole thing into a YouTube channel and a new podcast coming out. But my podcast the “Bryan Kramer bk show” was, it still is which I’m really kind of excited and shocked about, one of the top 100 business podcast. So, some really good stuff there but we’re going to we’re going to break out with some really new stuff that I’m totally excited about. Starting work on you know glimpse into a new book. And starting to do some new things so lots of cool stuff coming. Just you know, if you wanted to go to bryankramer.com. It’s all there, you can sign up and see everything. That’s it that’s how you can find me.

Ben:

I was hoping to get like an exclusive, then like dates. When you get a release? Or something sniffs at there? Come on give me, more Bryan give me more.

Bryan:

Yeah, unfortunately, that’s not how the publishing industry works. I’m at the very beginning of that part so I don’t have anything. Usually, it takes you know between six months in a year to get a book out. So that’s probably the best I can get.

Ben:

I’ve got to ask these things. I’m going to give the listeners what they want. You can’t blame me.

Bryan:

Not at all.

Ben:

So, before I let you go though. Because I think you’ve given so many good insights into humanisation. What other marketing and business buzzwords out there right now. Are you loving or hating? What words are people using that you’re absolutely hating? Or you think you know what this is something, that’s a really good word and sums up what it is quite nicely.

Bryan:

One word, that sums up this did you say year.

Ben:

No, it’s just a marketing or business buzz word or phrase that people are using all the time. That either grates on your bones or you think you know what I absolutely love that phrase.

Bryan:

You know, I’ll go back to what my one of my mentor is always said. And I absolutely love, and I still use it today. Which is 90% done as a 100% incomplete. And in marketing, it’s very easy to not complete something. It’s you know try yeah you do want to iterate but what I’m talking about completing is getting something up and running. And to get that up and running, it really takes some focus and some dedication. So, if I leave you with anything, it’s complete what you start. And before you move on to a new marketing initiative. That’s the and I’ll leave with one word and that’s human. But I would be remiss if I don’t use that word, right.

Ben:

Well, I’ll be almost disappointed if you didn’t.

Bryan:

Right, and then the last thing is if anybody wanted to join our Facebook group. I think you’re in that, if not you need to be, it’s Facebook it’s human marketing hub. And that’ll take you to the private Facebook group for just under 3,000 humans that want to humanize their business.

Ben:

Is there a sign on the outside says no bots allowed?

Bryan:

No, we just don’t accept you if you’re a bot. So, there you go.

Ben:

Is it district nine or something that South Africa you see nothing?

Bryan:

Yeah.

Ben:

I almost always had visions of that in my background. Like no aliens allowed.

Bryan:

I know right.

Ben:

Oh no permit, thank you so much for coming on today Bryan. It’s been an absolute pleasure. I think the insights you’ve given have been is exactly what I was hoping for. So, thank you so much your time today Bryan.

Bryan:

Thank you as well, I appreciate it.

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